energy panel - photovoltaic battery

[petro_cz 31]

I would welcome the ability to set battery storage in the power panel. Many power plants have this storage and it cannot be set up in Fibaro. I would quite welcome the possibility in this panel to set the battery charging and discharging and thus have an overview of the energy complete. Thank you

[m.roszak 763]

I fully agree that this is needed, we are talking about it internally for some time now.
It is not an easy task, some inverters gives the information about battery (charging, discharging, current level) and some not.

We are thinking about a solution which will work best for all installations. 

Adding additional meters (for example Qubino) will calulate the energy which is pulled or pushed to the battery but we don't know actual battery volume and its state. 

This is not that easy to do. 

[afendikov 37]

7 minutes ago, m.roszak said:

I fully agree that this is needed, we are talking about it internally for some time now.
It is not an easy task, some inverters gives the information about battery (charging, discharging, current level) and some not.

We are thinking about a solution which will work best for all installations. 

Adding additional meters (for example Qubino) will calulate the energy which is pulled or pushed to the battery but we don't know actual battery volume and its state. 

This is not that easy to do. 

Hi @m.roszak

 

Idea of metering battery is impossible ( I think and sure ), because Qubino, Aeotec measures AC voltage and current, and Battery-Inverter power communication is DC, which is quite different

 

All inverters support can be made by QA - for example my real data for this minute ( I have PV + Battery system and calculate all in my QA )

 

 

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Can you made settings in your Energy panel - which device user can assign as Battery Charge and Battery Discharge, Battery Capacity and Battery Power Usage ?

It will be enough to have all data and include it in Energy Panel

 

Thanks

 

[m.roszak 763]

That is the way that we probably go to.

As for battery charging, I am not sure if in all inverters charging is using DC not AC (and additional AC->DC converter is inside battery). 
Probably you are right

As for the topic itself.
How in your opinion we should handle charging and discharging a battery in case of whole energy balance?

It can be charged from solar, from grid... 
In theory it can be even discharged to grid. 

Charging the battery should be transparent? Should we assume that if you charged it then you can use this energy there is no loss there?
This is something, for me at least - not fully clear.

It should be presented some way which will not affect the correction of calulations.

[petro_cz 31]

I pulled the necessary data directly from the inverter ( data on the GROWATT server) so all I would need to do is enter the battery items in the energy panel and fill it in myself

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[petro_cz 31]

1 hour ago, afendikov said:

Ahoj@m.roszak

 

Myšlenka měření baterie je nemožná (myslím a jistě), protože Qubino, Aeotec měří střídavé napětí a proud a komunikace mezi baterií a invertorem je stejnosměrná, což je zcela odlišné

 

Veškerá podpora střídačů může být provedena pomocí QA - například moje skutečná data pro tuto minutu (mám systém PV + baterie a vše spočítám v mém QA)

 

 

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:

 

Můžete provést nastavení na panelu Energie – které zařízení může uživatel přiřadit jako Nabíjení a vybíjení baterie, Kapacita baterie a Spotřeba energie baterie?

Bude stačit mít všechna data a zahrnout je do Energy Panelu

 

dík

 

But the inverter gives you information how many KW it was charging and how much it was discharging, it's the energy value that has to be included in the consumption

[afendikov 37]

1 hour ago, m.roszak said:

As for battery charging, I am not sure if in all inverters charging is using DC not AC (and additional AC->DC converter is inside battery). 
Probably you are right

 If we talking about Inverter - Battery - this is always DC, to avoid power loss on AC/DC DC/AC transformation, which is ~ 3-7% 

 

1 hour ago, m.roszak said:

As for the topic itself.
How in your opinion we should handle charging and discharging a battery in case of whole energy balance?

It can be charged from solar, from grid... 
In theory it can be even discharged to grid. 

Charging the battery should be transparent? Should we assume that if you charged it then you can use this energy there is no loss there?
This is something, for me at least - not fully clear.

It's better to have to have transparent, because in one day it can be - Battery Charge = 5kWh and Battery Discharge = 5kWh

Balance is Zero, but for customer it's very important to understand, that without battery he/she forced to use fuel generator to provide energy for the house ( if we talking about offline systems and battery using as power backup )

1 hour ago, m.roszak said:

Should we assume that if you charged it then you can use this energy there is no loss there?

Usually inverters provide data after power loss.

But in my case - I calculate additional power loss to have better data and working on adding BMS data directly from the battery to QA

 

[petro_cz 31]

2 hours ago, m.roszak said:

Plně souhlasím, že je to potřeba, už se o tom nějakou dobu interně bavíme.
Není to snadný úkol, některé střídače poskytují informace o baterii (nabíjení, vybíjení, úroveň proudu) a některé ne.

Přemýšlíme o řešení, které bude nejlépe fungovat pro všechny instalace. 

Přidáním dalších měřičů (například Qubino) se spočítá energie, která je přitahována nebo tlačena do baterie, ale neznáme skutečný objem baterie a její stav. 

To není tak snadné. 

The problem is that most meters are mounted at the entrance to the house where production/consumption is measured. So the production that goes into the battery is not accounted for. 

[m.roszak 763]

Exactly.

When you charge a battery from the grid and then discharge it to power up the home - yes, it is clear that it is consumption.
When you charge a battery from the solar and then discharge it to power up the home - this is also clear that it is consumption, but its free in case of the cost and in most cases can't be measured. 

How we should handle charging and discharging to present this in energy balance of the home?
That is main problem here.

Also during grid consumption, when there in small or no production - some of the power will go to devices, some will go to the battery. 

I am still having problems to figure it out how to present this in the most understandable way.

 

[afendikov 37]

30 minutes ago, m.roszak said:

Exactly.

When you charge a battery from the grid and then discharge it to power up the home - yes, it is clear that it is consumption.
When you charge a battery from the solar and then discharge it to power up the home - this is also clear that it is consumption, but its free in case of the cost and in most cases can't be measured. 

How we should handle charging and discharging to present this in energy balance of the home?
That is main problem here.

Also during grid consumption, when there in small or no production - some of the power will go to devices, some will go to the battery. 

I am still having problems to figure it out how to present this in the most understandable way.

 

 

You are right - all energy, which passed to charge Battery from PV - can/must be ignored in consumption, but this is Accumulation = Consumption of future periods.

 

I can provide my power report, which generates every day at 23:59.

 

It shows only consumed energy with split to Grid and Green Energy. Green also split to Solar and Battery.

 

Digits are    | Total ( Day 07-to-23 / Night 23-to-07 ). Report example from 30th June:

 

used day      | 046kW
 grid              | 000kW ( 000 / 000 )
 green           | 046kW ( 041 / 005 )
  solar            | 038kW ( 037 / 001 )
  battery        | 007kW ( 003 / 004 )
grid month    | 049kW ( 027 / 021 )
green month | 1100kW ( 966 / 134 )

 

As you see - this year in June I consume only 4.4% from Grid ( oven + stove ), but next Year it will be full autonomy - oven + stove goes on PV + Battery now

 

[Merlin 3]

On 10/5/2022 at 4:19 PM, petro_cz said:

I pulled the necessary data directly from the inverter ( data on the GROWATT server) so all I would need to do is enter the battery items in the energy panel and fill it in myself

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@petro_cz

 

Hi,

 

I too have a Growatt inverter, is it possible for you to help / show me how to get the information in to HC3 like you have done?

 

I have an SPF 5000 ES with Pylontech Batteries.

 

Thanks,

[petro_cz 31]

On 27. 10. 2022 at 17:34, Merlin said:

@petro_cz

 

Ahoj,

 

Také mám měnič Growatt, můžete mi pomoci / ukázat mi, jak dostat informace do HC3, jako jste to udělali vy?

 

Mám SPF 5000 ES s bateriemi Pylontech.

 

Dík,

It's a bit more complicated, first I pull the data from the growatt server ( there is a script for this ) the data is passed to the database ( I use a server for this) then in HC3 there is a box that sucks the data from the database. My work colleague put the whole thing together for me, if you are interested in the whole solution I would give you an email to him. He would do it for you.

[Albert 28]

Hi

The latest integration for Growatt hybrid inverters with option to set energy flow priority - allows you to set the inverter mode, e.g. according to dynamic energy tariffs

Works locally, via modbus, so fetch data immediately, frequently, and not via cloud.

Growatt: 

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