Double relay FGS-224 (FGS-223) to operate two solenoid valves

[assosboy 0]

Hello to everyone.

I want to control two solenoid valves for irrigation in my garden. The valves are 24 Vac.

Can i use double relay switch (FGS 224 or FGS 223) to do that?

I'm thinking the below connection diagram. 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Is this connection going to work?

I mean, is ot possible to connect 24Vac to "IN" or i must only connect 24Vdc?

 

Thanks a lot.

 

[coonrado 15]

At the Q1 and Q2 terminals you will have 230V. You would have to use 230V relays and an external 24V power supply.

[Tim__ 114]

It might seem logical to do as you suggest, but the manual does state "always use the same power source for L and IN".  Seperate slave relays are the way to go as @coonrado suggests.  There is another reason for this - the manual states that the load should be resistive only. Your inductive load solenoids may overwhelm the contacts in the FGS, causing them to weld together.

[cag014 632]

10 hours ago, assosboy said:

Hello to everyone.

I want to control two solenoid valves for irrigation in my garden. The valves are 24 Vac.

Can i use double relay switch (FGS 224 or FGS 223) to do that?

I'm thinking the below connection diagram. 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Is this connection going to work?

I mean, is ot possible to connect 24Vac to "IN" or i must only connect 24Vdc?

 

Thanks a lot.

 

The answer is definitely yes, you can use it.

I use same configuration for my solenoids also. Just in my case I have 12V.

Works fine for almost 4 years.

4 hours ago, coonrado said:

At the Q1 and Q2 terminals you will have 230V. You would have to use 230V relays and an external 24V power supply.

At Q1 and Q2 terminals you'll have whatever connected to the IN terminal.

The common practice is that we connect 220V to IN, but it is dry relay....

Edited November 24, 2022 by cag014

[assosboy 0]

Thanks a lot

 

[Martin_N 146]

@assosboy ...and other.

These questions are repeated over and over again. Dude, they don't know the electrical profession, I'm not sure even after reading the instructions. Anyway, I gave advice on a similar question on the oredchozi post:

 

 

 

In my opinion, why it is stated in the FGS manual that you have to connect the same voltage to the IN terminal as you use to the L terminal (when L=230VAC then IN=230VAC, or when L=24VDC THEN IN=24VDC) is simple.
This is about the insulation strength of the particles on the flat connection inside the FGS, and the regulation on the same type of voltage ensures sufficient protection. Maybe someone from Fibaro development can respond to this, whether this is really the case.
Don't take my word for it now.
It is similar to a relay with more contacts. At first glance, you have separate circuits, but the working contact gaps, for example, do not provide sufficient insulation strength against jumping of bumps/interference.

 

eM.

[assosboy 0]

I've connected the solenoids valves as indicated in drawing and so far everything is working correctly.

 

[Greenhippo 3]

Hey folks, especially @cag014 and @Martin_N.  I plan the same solution as the diagram above by @assosboy.  I've ordered a couple of FGS-224 modules.

 

In my case, there is a master switch elsewhere in the house that centrally controls the 24V A/C solenoids.  Therefore, locally, the voltage supplied to IN will be either be 24V A/C (master switch is on) or 0V (master switch is off).

 

When I use the FGS-224 to turn on or off the solenoids locally, is it possible to determine whether current is actually flowing / power is being consumed?

 

If not, which Fibaro module can I use to determine whether the 24V A/C supply is present?

 

Thanks!

 

[Martin_N 146]

@Greenhippo Hello,

 

FGS-224 is a relay switch, i.e. its contacts are so-called "dry". Because of this, it cannot measure the current passing through.

However, it can be powered by 24VDC.

 

The FGS-223 module can measure current (thus calculates power), but it cannot be powered by 24V. The output is connected to the supplied phase L!

Fibaro does not have the module you are looking for.

 

Again, I must point out that the use of 230V for power supply and 24V for switching is electrically correct (galvanically separated switching and power supply circuits) with the FGS-224, but it is contrary to the manufacturer's instructions.

See my post above.

Alternatively, you can supply 24VDC and switch 24VAC (safety will be fine).

[Martin_N 146]

@Greenhippo

However, you can choose a different product.

Qubino has been merged under Shelly and now we have the module:

SHELLY QUBINO WAVE 2PM - RELAY SWITCH WITH POWER METERING 2X 10A (Z-WAVE).

And yes, it has power metering, but it's also powered by 24VDC.

So if you can use 24VDC powered solenoids instead of AC, you have what you need.

eM.

[Greenhippo 3]

Thanks a lot @Martin_N for the information and for such a quick reply.

I have a 240VAC to 24VDC transformer in the same box that I can use for a DC supply if needed.  But, I can't change the solenoids.  So I still need to "measure" somehow whether the 24VAC is present or not.

 

I looked at the Shelly product you mentioned.  Must the two L terminals be coupled, as shown in all their diagrams, or is it possible to use one L terminal with 24VDC to power the unit and the other L terminal with 24VAC for switching, as per the FGS224 (noting your comments above)?

 

Edited May 20 by Greenhippo

[Martin_N 146]

@Greenhippo

Hello.

 

You wanted a module that can detect the voltage passing through the switching element. Unfortunately, precisely because of the consumption measurement requirement, neither this Shelly, which I wrote, nor the FGS-223 are potential-free (dry) contacts.

The non-potential ones are FGS-224, or from Shelly "Shelly Qubino Wave 1". It can be powered up to 30VDC. Since it is possible to supply 12VDC, it would be worth trying to connect 24VAC (I think there is only a rectifier and some stepdown, which will make a small voltage from 230V for logic and switching.

But that's just speculation. This use is not according to the manufacturer's instructi

ons.

As for the requirement to measure the presence of 24VAC, I assume it is only because you want to be sure the valve is closed?

Then the whole thing can be solved with Smart Implat, but unfortunately it is also on DC voltage. The SI input would monitor the auxiliary relay contact. It would have to be a current relay that responds only to the value of the current flowing through the circuit (not the presence of voltage).

Or do you want to deal with consumption measurement?