Turning on/off the gas boiler - how ??

[Staszek.S 6]

Ok so I bought Smart implant, to be able to drive my gas boiler, when there is requirement for heat.

As a concept everything works fine. The FGT controlers, ask the switch in Smart module to turn on when heat is required.

Problem is that on my Viessmann Vitodens 100 there is 2 pole contact that needs to be closed to let the heater to work.

Till now I have some simple room thermostat and this does the job.

Fibaro was suppose to be replacement (more inteligent).

Problem is - that on this contacts I have 220V...  No big deal for standard relay but for Smart implant a big one...

I tested the output from Smart implant with multimeter. Works fine.

But when I connected the boiler contact to the Smart module the boiler works regardles of the Smart module output state.

Only then I saw in manual that max voltage for output is 30 V....    So what do I do ??

Any ideas how to solve this ?

 

I have to mention I'm being a bit dissapointed... Implant is advertised as a ultimate solution for all old, 'not smart' equipment...

But a lot of such devices has simple on/off buttons, drived by mains power 110/220V and for those - Implant is unusable... How one should tell if some fan, heater, radio, garage gate are driven by mains power or by special low voltage circuit ?

Edited December 1, 2022 by Staszek.S

[Tim__ 114]

First up, you should check the voltage of your appliance connection using a multimeter before connecting to it.  You will have fried your smart implant by connecting it to 220V - please don't blame Fibaro when you didn't read the manual.

 

The smart implant is not a relay - it only works up to 30V, which is great for most electronic devices. You can use other Fibaro devices (such as Switch2) to switch 220V. 

 

It might be an idea to get an electrician to install this for you?

[Staszek.S 6]

Hi

So first of all you are right I should have been reading the manual-but who actually does ?:)

I have certification up to 1kV so I can manage 220V - problem is I did not expect that they put 220V into the relay contacts (for me it is stupid, 12 would be enough or even less). And I did not expect that Implant allows only 30V... It is even logical - older, simpler devices, allows to install implant relatively easy, but it can't be installed because of 30V limit. Electronic devices, driven by smaller current is usualy relatively more complicated so harder to put Implant to.

I can't use the switch. I have 2 contacts that I need to join together to start the boiler. And there is 220V between them. Switch will put 220V from powering terminals to the output contacts - this is not what i need to do   I need something that acts as a pure relay, with completely separated hot, powering terminals from the output

[Martin_N 146]

When I go to solve something unknown, I assume the following:

1) study of documentation
2) verification of all facts (measurement)
3) circuit design
4) testing and again evaluating knowledge before final completion
5) completion and function verification again
6) entered edits in the documentation
7) tidy up the workplace

Recommended: for most activities and not just electrical, it is advisable to be educated in the field (not necessary, you can be a handy handyman with respect for danger, but you have to know what you are doing and possibly get advice and be able to follow advice)

 

If you have the relevant qualifications, I don't understand your procedure... something to assume! I understand that you could have overlooked something, but an electrician can't assume anything.

You wrote it yourself... you need the relay to separate the circuits.

 

 

And when I've written so nicely, I'll tell you what to do with it.
If your Smart Implant survived (verify it by measuring), connect to its output a low-voltage relay with a maximum current requirement of 150mA (normally they have about 50mA), which has dimensioned contacts for a 230V connection. Attention, some relays are connected by a contact to one terminal of the coil, do not take these. You need a "dry contact".
You then connect the boiler via this contact of the auxiliary relay.

 

 

Please be careful, we hope to see you on the forum.

eM.

[Martin_N 146]

@Staszek.S

If you don't want to mess with SmartImplanet and booster relay, use FGS-214.
You can power this module directly at the boiler from 230V and it has a dry contact between the terminal IN and Q1. look in the manual.

eM 

[cag014 632]

1 hour ago, Martin_N said:

@Staszek.S

If you don't want to mess with SmartImplanet and booster relay, use FGS-214.
You can power this module directly at the boiler from 230V and it has a dry contact between the terminal IN and Q1. look in the manual.

 

Before using FGS-214 (which capable to switch 220V) you need to know the power consumption of the boiler!? Usually, it drives up to 16A and FGS-214 as you can see below is far away to support that!

Please login or register to see this spoiler.

 

[Staszek.S 6]

Hi and thank you I have FGS-224 so this may actually work.

There is no any power consumption on this contacts. This is not the power on/off line. This is pure signal line, and the boiler wants to know only if there is continuity (closed so heating) or not (opened so no heat).

This was root cause of my mistake - normally devices do not use main power for signal lines (thermostats, ir traps, alarm sensors etc - all work on 24V or less). This one unfortunately does. The device uses gas to heat - power is used only for electronics and water pump - about 90W in total.

Smart implant survived - checked and confirmed.

Lesson learned - if you put higher voltage on the output contacts than 30 V - Implant will pass it through - no matter if it is opened or closed - worth to know

 

[Staszek.S 6]

Ok so i hooked the FGS-224 up and it works great.

It even has estimated power consumption so I can set it up for electricity that my boiler uses.

Fibaro heat activator also works fine.

One problem I have is related to the temperature charts.

In devices/fgt/advanced I have historical temperature data.

For week - it looks ok.

For day - the setpoint is always off - only the last point (far right) is accurate, but this is only for the moment in time when the chart is created.

If I see there now - lets say on 4pm, then I see setpoint off for all the time, except 4pm (it is set for 20'C).

But if I comeback here on 5pm - the setpoint will be off for all the time including 4pm, and 20'C will be only on 5pm (the moment of checking)..

But for weekly view this looks ok.

 

On weekly view do not pay attention on the time before December 1st - for some reason my central keeps data only for 3-4 days back (power, temp, everything)

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Edited December 3, 2022 by Staszek.S