what are some compatible 0 -10 V sensors for the Fibaro FGBS 222 Implant

[just_lurky_48 2]

Hello all,

 

I have a Fibaro FGBS 222 implant, and wanted to know what sensors are compatible with it, that are not listed already. I don't really need this for a temperature sensor.

 

According to the manual, it can accept 2-wire or 3-wire 0-10V sensors. Can someone tell me what sensors these might be?

 

thanks

[Martin_N 146]

@just_lurky_48

Congratulations on completing an interesting implementation.
However, a clogged filter is better able to detect the pressure difference (comparing the pressure in front of the filter and behind the filter). There are gauges for this, which either provide an analog value directly to the pressure, so connect them via the 0-10V analog input, or they already have membranes set to a specific pressure (differential) and when this emergency pressure is reached, the contact closes... so connect it again to SI, but the digital input.

I can already see how you thought about what you could measure again...
So congratulations once again, keep on educating yourself...

[Martin_N 146]

@just_lurky_48

Welcome to the jungle,... to the forum

 

If that's what you're asking, you probably don't need it at all.
But I will try to explain it to you.
The 0-10V input is an analog input. That is, the input with which you can measure a continuous signal in the range of 0-10V. In "measurement and regulation" practice, other methods of current loops 0-20mA / 4-20mA are used. It's a similar way, but a different method. Of course, other methods are also used, but you are interested in a specific thing.
Back to the 0-10V principle.
A sensor that measures some quantity in some range converts this quantity into 0-10V (0 = 0V, 100% = 10V).
The relevant ranges are listed in the sensor documentation (for example: for temperature 0V = 0°C, 10V=50°C; for pressure 0V = 0Bar, 10V = 6Bar). Then it depends on the method of processing this signal so that you can assign the measured value to the correct value of the quantity.
Today there are a large number of detectors.
The most common ones will be various valve positions, temperature, humidity, liquid/air/gas pressure, relative pressure (pressure differential), absolute pressure (barometer), COx, range finder, depth finder, light sensor, .... and many more.

[just_lurky_48 2]

@Martin_N thank you so much for explaining this to me! I had no idea this was the how the world works!

 

I have a few sensors, but I would really like to get this up via-zwave, a TDS Water sensor:

 

it has output voltage of 0 to 2.3 V analogue:

 

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Would I be able to connect this to the Fibaro?

 

If not, I also have a few other sensor such as HR-SR04

 

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and a few other Aruduino type sensors. It sounds like the Fibaro is not a power supply and thus the sensor would require its own (And maybe separate) power supply. Is this correct?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by just_lurky_48

[Martin_N 146]

@just_lurky_48

This module with 0-2.3V will not be suitable for connection to SmartImplant. Considering the range of 0-1000ppm, the measured value will have a very small resolution. That's not to say it can't be done. You can.
The answer to the next question is YES, you have to supply your own power supply to the module. So, TDS needs 3.3-5.5V wide-voltage power supply, SmartImplant needs 9-30V.
It follows from the above that you have to supply a power supply, for example 12V for the SI and stepdown converter, or some regulator to adjust the power supply for the TDS. Alternatively, a separate 5V source. You must then connect the negative poles of the source and you can now connect the TDS output to the SI input.
But as I wrote here, you will have about 1/4 resolution.

 

For me, I would use the TDS module to connect to ESP8266 or ESP32, program a simple web page on ESP, output to JSON and query it from QuickApp from HC3.
It is also possible to use some solution with MQTT, see some posts here.

 

HC - SR04 is another kind of sensor.
Here TTL signal levels are used and very FAST pulses are counted to represent distance. It won't work here at all without Arduino/ESP/..

I will add more..
There are TDS sensors that have a 0-10V output.
It costs about 75 Euro and more.

 

[just_lurky_48 2]

Thank you again. It seems I might need to obtain a specific sensor for the implant, and one that could at least share the same power supply as the implant.

 

Thank you again!

 

 

[just_lurky_48 2]

hey, would this work with the implant?

 

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It seems to have the 0 to 10V output, and 12VDC supply power.

 

Although, i'm confused as to how to connect this to the implant. There are 4 terminals, I presume 2 will be 12VDC power and the other 2 will be connected to the IN1 or IN2 of the Fibaro. Fibaro manual says something about "The 2-wire analog sensor requires pull-up resistor". Where do I place this pull up resistor and how large/small?

 

thanks

 

 

 

[Martin_N 146]

@just_lurky_48

I haven't seen the manual for your sensor. In general, I recommend connecting according to the manual to SI in the three-point version.
That is: Power + sources for feeding the SI and the sensor.
Power - (GND) source for SI and sensor power supply.
Connect the sensor output to the SI input.
I think that the extreme terminal is not connected. This sensor does not have two outputs. So you only use one SI input.

 

And I will also add information in case someone has to use a 0-10 V sensor with a larger/smaller power supply than it is for SI.
The SI will have its own source, the sensor will also have its own source. They must be connected to their ground (GND). Then just connect the sensor output to the SI input.

[just_lurky_48 2]

@Martin_N thank you. I have asked for a manual for the sensor to make sure it can be done.

 

Will report back soon, when I get it.

 

Cheers

[just_lurky_48 2]

Ok, @Martin_N

 

I think I finally found a sensor and an application to use it for: monitor the pressure of my hot water expansion tank using this pressure transducer:

 

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I believe it has all the requirements for this to work with the Z-wave implant

 

- 3 wires

- 12 to 30 VDC Power supply

- 0 to 10V output

 

The product spec sheet is here:

 

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I hope this works...lol!

 

 

[Martin_N 146]

@just_lurky_48

It affects me a bit that you have a Smart Implant and you want to use it to the full, so you are looking for a suitable application

 

But yes, your components should work together.
DYI good luck

 

Remember that you cannot report too fast value changes. Respectively, the frequency of periodic sending of values can be set to a minimum of 1x per 60sec.
Next, you set the change threshold for the report. Default is 0.5V (ie 5% change to send new value to HC3). If it doesn't bother you too much, I recommend not changing it. There's no point in sending every tiny change if you don't want to work with it further and it's only informative (it's not part of any control loops).

[just_lurky_48 2]

 

 

@Martin_N

 

lol I have this Fibaro that I wanted to use originally with my smoke detectors (to get them to report when they are on or off), but decided not to do that project. So I want to repurpose its use.

 

This is a good point about not flooding the z-wave network with too much information. 1x per 60 seconds and 5% change should be plenty for this application.

 

I'm going to be using this device in Home Assistant (via Z-waveJS) so, it might be a little different how it is setup, but this will be another day to figure that out. It has these parameter avaiable:

 

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Need a couple of weeks for the pressure transmitter to come in, but I will likely be post back here later.

 

I'll be looking for a decent power supply, too. Guess those AC to 12VDC 1 amp power supply should be sufficient....by maybe 2 amps. I can't imagine these devices eating too much power.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by just_lurky_48

[just_lurky_48 2]

@Martin_N

 

Project update! Ok, I changed it up a bit, I ended using the smart implant with a velocity meter to measure the velocity of air moving in my HVAC system as a way to tell me when I have to change my filter.

Purchase a 0 to 10V version of this

 

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and then connected and installed it.

 

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Being so small, I was able to stuff the FGBS-222 in the housing for the velocity meter.

 

And the output (voltage converted to speed) shown here in Home Assistant:

 

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This is the front-face filter velocity, so the theory is, as the filter gets more clogged, the velocity will be diminished, according to this study. 

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Of course, this is not something that you will see overnight, as filter becomes clogged over months, the hope is I will see a difference in the velocity overtime.

 

thank you for your help!!

 

[just_lurky_48 2]

@Martin_N

 

You're so right about that! pressure was the other method I was looking at implementing, however, I decided to implement the velocity measurement instead, they are related (as you already know). 

 

But one thing that pushed me more towards the velocity side was because I also have an HRV on my system, when that turns on I noticed that there's also a change in velocity that a pressure differential may not pick up because the differential through the filter would be the same....if the whole system drops in pressure?? ... I guess if you measure absolute pressure, that would do the same anyways I'm no HVAC expert, but, time will tell if this would work the way I've done it.... and if it actually can distinguish the difference between a clogged filter or not 😂 

 

EDIT: actually what I said doesn't make sense because even if the whole system drops an equal pressure there will always be a differential in the filter.... Ok 

Edited March 3, 2023 by just_lurky_48

[Martin_N 146]

@just_lurky_48

Hello,..
While we're discussing the topic, I can add to it.
The pressure difference is also used to measure HVAC operation. You insert the input of the pressure switch into the air duct and leave the output of the sensor (the second input) unconnected, outside the air duct. And that is the difference that occurs in the RUN/STOP mode.

Difference-based pressure measurement has many uses... and it depends on what you want to monitor, how to evaluate. (Engine running, engine speed, filter clogged,...).

[just_lurky_48 2]

@Martin_N hey! here's an update

 

I replaced my furnace (HVAC) filter on May 1st, 2023 (which is 6 months since I originally installed it, as per manufactures suggestion to replace it every 6 months). The filter was quite dirty and heavy...check out the difference in velocity between the last 2 months vs first 2 weeks of a brand new filter. What a difference!  

 

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Edited May 11, 2023 by just_lurky_48

[Martin_N 146]

@just_lurky_48

Oh...a beautiful example..
Thanks for sharing the results of your work.