What happens if L and N are swapped?

[krza 3]

Hi,

 

on the Single Switch 2 there are explcit L and N pins. Usually you connect them as depicted in the manual. But what happens if you swap the cables? This is shown in the attached image.

 

The switch between S1 an L might not work anymore. Don´t know. Would not hurt though, especially if the device is intended to be installed in a socket.

For the consumer it would not play a role. The only difference is that no longer L is switched but N (which might or might not be critical).

But what about the device? I see 3 options: 1) It still works normally, 2) It does not work anymore, 3) It´s destroyed. Don´t want to try it out to be honest

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Background: I would like to use it in a kind of mobile setup, so not within a stationary socket or switch but in a box which is plugged into a socket as any other 230 V device. And that´s the point: I can plug it either way, at least in Germany.

Edited June 16 by krza
background added

[Martin_N 137]

@krza

Hello.
I will only answer that with a note. Thank God that we have the so-called French system, i.e. the plug/socket distinction is given by the earth pin. Every electrician knows that the phase on the left should be expected (Although, I never know which artist connected it, so I'll check it anyway).

And to the topic.
I inadvertently tried a device from a certain Chinese manufacturer in a Schuko socket. It was a touch switch that did not require N. (N was actually coming back through the light bulb).
Strangely it survived, but it behaved in reverse.
Now I'm damn careful when I see something like that right at the Schuko drawer.

I will advise. If it is to be a mobile device, mark where the phase wires are on the plug. Always check where the phase actually is before plugging it into the socket.

Just a final note: I hope that our (Czech) legislators and standard-makers will not let Brussels push them into the nonsense called Schuko.

And I will add information about the risk. IF it still worked after cutting it in half, cutting the N wire could damage the switched-on appliance. This sometimes happened when the terminal in the switchboard or socket was incorrectly connected, and the refrigerator, buckle, ..

 

eM 

 

[krza 3]

Hi Martin,

 

thanks for your response (for some reason I did not get a notification althoug followed).

 

Yes, I do what you have suggested ... I know which pin is L and which is N and have to test the socket before. This is okay because I am the only one who uses it and I seldomly unplug/plug  it. It´s actually for some measurements and to see how everything works before potentially installing it somewhere as intended.

 

Regarding Schuko vs French ... I am glad that we don´t have that earth pin because it forces you to insert the plug in a specific angle. But I often had the situation that I had to insert the plug with the wire facing upwards or something in order to fit. this is not possible with the earth pin. And anyway there doesn´t seem to be an official rule where L and N have to be although the earth pin creates a distinction. And even if ... you are right ... you cannot trust the socket

[cag014 626]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:45 PM, krza said:

Hi,

 

on the Single Switch 2 there are explcit L and N pins. Usually you connect them as depicted in the manual. But what happens if you swap the cables? This is shown in the attached image.

 

The switch between S1 an L might not work anymore. Don´t know. Would not hurt though, especially if the device is intended to be installed in a socket.

For the consumer it would not play a role. The only difference is that no longer L is switched but N (which might or might not be critical).

But what about the device? I see 3 options: 1) It still works normally, 2) It does not work anymore, 3) It´s destroyed. Don´t want to try it out to be honest

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Background: I would like to use it in a kind of mobile setup, so not within a stationary socket or switch but in a box which is plugged into a socket as any other 230 V device. And that´s the point: I can plug it either way, at least in Germany.

All known electrical devices can work just fine if the L and N are swapped That's the idea of AC power.

Of course, there are some special cases that you need to keep proper connection, but it's usually done by armatures.

[krza 3]

8 hours ago, cag014 said:

... That's the idea of AC power. ...

Maybe not the idea but the effect, of course. In this case it probably works because the actual electronic device is directly fed by both wires. However, it´s worth thinking about it I might try it out at some point or ask Fibaro for a comment.

[Martin_N 137]

Okay, okay...
Yes, Cag014 is right.
But the main idea of polarizing contacts (that the phase is where it should be) is safety.
For example, with a light, it is necessary to ensure that the phase is on the bottom contact, not on the socket (classic light bulbs). Most electronic devices have internal fuses and protection circuits right on the phase wire.

However, even our national standard says that the phase should be on the left, but if this is not the case, it must be the same throughout the building. And again, the standards are not binding, they are only a recommendation (Unless they are cited in laws or declared by the government).

 

Otherwise, I'm curious what support will tell you.

They must include the scheme in the documentation so that there is no doubt about a verified and safe installation. Anything else may work, but it is contrary to the manual and therefore to the declaration of conformity and therefore to the whole process of the approval process of putting the product on the market

eM.

 

[cag014 626]

15 minutes ago, Martin_N said:

Okay, okay...
Yes, Cag014 is right.
But the main idea of polarizing contacts (that the phase is where it should be) is safety.
For example, with a light, it is necessary to ensure that the phase is on the bottom contact, not on the socket (classic light bulbs). Most electronic devices have internal fuses and protection circuits right on the phase wire.

However, even our national standard says that the phase should be on the left, but if this is not the case, it must be the same throughout the building. And again, the standards are not binding, they are only a recommendation (Unless they are cited in laws or declared by the government).

 

Otherwise, I'm curious what support will tell you.

They must include the scheme in the documentation so that there is no doubt about a verified and safe installation. Anything else may work, but it is contrary to the manual and therefore to the declaration of conformity and therefore to the whole process of the approval process of putting the product on the market

eM.

 

The safety issue of the polarity is already taken into consideration inside the electrical equipment. Regulatory requirement.

Usually, the AC power inside the equipment connected to the transformer, so the polarity doesn't matter at all. In these days the transformer replaced by switchable power supply which has basic design to work with any polarity.