Using Smart implant to disable Button from Chamberlain Garage opener ?

[Jupp 1]

Hi all.

 

Maybe a weird question (and my first as well in this forum):

 

I have a Garage opener from Chamberlain. With a button (two-wired), I can open / close it

I have a HomeKit capable Opener from Memos connected (works fine).

 

Following scenario: I I have my car parked in front of the Garage door for charging it. Because of this the should cannot (and should not) open by accidentally pushing the Opener button inside the Garage.

I was thinking about using the Smart Implant (using the power of the Chamberlain Garage opener) to activate / deactivate the functionality of the button.

 

I am aware, that this is a quite unusual "use case", but somehow, I am looking for a chance to save my car for being damaged accidentally. 

 

Maybe you have an idea, how to solve this ? 

 

I would highly appreciate your feedback / support on that.

 

Thanks in advance 

[Fabir 70]

@JuppHello and welcome to the community.

 

I don't know the specs of your Chamberlain Garage Door opener. 

 

Smart Implant has 2 potential free contacts that you can use for garage door opener. Max 150mA load. The manual is

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.

 

 

[Jupp 1]

Thanks for coming back on this.

 

I don't want to use the Smart implant to make the Door opener "smart". It's more like to use the already smart door opener only, if nothing stands in front of the Garage. 

For this I like to enable / disable the two-wired button. So it should not be possible to use the button (disabled), if nothing stands in front of the garage.

 

Any idea on this ? 

Thanks in advance.

[Fabir 70]

@JuppIf the potential free contact of the smart implant is open, it would interrupt the wire going from the button to the chamberlain door motor device. That's what you where asking for, above.

 

When you want to open the door with the button, switch the smart implant output on again, in the Fibaro Yubii App. After that, the door button is working again. 

 

To use two smart home systems in the same house, isn't an elegant solution.  If you have a Fibaro homecenter, the smart implant can do both jobs. 

 

Output 1 can open/close the door.

Output 2 can interrupt the wire cable going to the button in the garage, when needet.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Fabir

[Jupp 1]

Hi again and thanks. That shows me now...I'm not deep enough into that topic

I attached the picture of connectors of the chamberlain garage opener to this thread.

My idea was to use the 24 V (green connector on the left) to power up the Smart Implant (this worked by using the red "Power" and blue "GND" cable).

The connectors "1" (red) and "2" (white) are used for the two-wired button (picture attached as well) of the garage door opener.

 

So my expectation was, to connect "IN1" from the Smart Implant to "1" of the opener. 2nd "GND" (blue) of the Smart Implant to "2" of the opener.

"OUT1" of the Smart Implant to the two wires of the Button.

 

This didn't work. I got the Smart Implant included in HC3. Maybe I didn't choose the right variables ?

Maybe I did something wrong in the cabelling ?

 

 

Your proposal to cover the smart functionality as well with the 2nd "OUT2" I really like. That would save me one additional hardware for another platform. 

This challenge, I like to check after this one here :D. 

 

Thanks in advance for your help. I highly appreciate it.

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[Fabir 70]

@Jupp Not sure if I understand your descripiton above correctly.  Can you give me a link to the installation manual of this garage door?

 

Thanks!

Edited June 24, 2023 by Fabir

[Jupp 1]

Hi again.

 

Sure:

 

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Page 5 of the manual describes the connection of the button (shown in my uploaded picture). The two wires for the button go to Port "1! (red) and "2" (white) of the door opener.

My expectation was to use the provided Power of the door opener (24V) for the Smart Implant (this works). The Smart Implant uses this power.

And I wanted to use the cables from the Smart Implant ("IN1" and "GND") to connect it to the door openers Ports "1" and "2"., instead the buttons cabels.

The buttons cables, I wanted to connect to the "OUT1" of the Smart Implant. But this didn't work.

 

Hope this helps a bit better to explain the situation. Thanks for following up on this.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Jupp

[Martin_N 153]

@Jupp

Hello.
You probably don't understand the difference between inputs and outputs.
You have to plug it in exactly the other way around.
So, connect terminals 1 and 2 of the opener (where the button is connected) to output OUT1 SI.
Then you can control your door from SI.
We'll bounce back from that and then deal with other things.

[Martin_N 153]

@Jupp

Well, one thing. I was looking at your first post, when you write that you don't want to give an open mind. So, that would be exactly the case of my original contribution, i.e. smart control.

If you connect the control button in series with the OUT1 SI output, you will achieve the desired function. To open the door, two conditions must then be met: 1) the output OUT1 SI is switched on, 2) the button is pressed.

eM.

[Jupp 1]

Hi and thanks for contributing.

 

I tried out, what I understood from your post.

I understood, that I had a "twist in mind" . So the Inputs of the Smart Implant are not needed at all, correct ? 

I connected the OUT1 of the Smart Implant to the "1" AND "2" of the Garage Opener. This leads to the situation, that I can open and close the Garage by Turning on/off the "Switch 1" from the Smart Implant (this function I had in the past with the Meross Door Opener). A bit strange, because it tells me the the Switch is on, but the door is closed (and vice versa).

 

Now I placed the two wired Button from Chamberlain in serial to this and yes I can turn the button on and off now (so when the button is off, the garage cannot be opened/closed as well)...BUT every time I switch the status from on to off (or vice versa), the door opens or closes. 

I hoped, I can treat this function separately. Now, when I reach the Garage. The Door is closed and I want to turn the button off. But then the Door openes.

This is not the way it helps.

 

What I do not like with this solution as well: I cannot see the status of the Garage (is it open or closed). So maybe the Smart Implant isn't the right switch to steer the Garage door ? 

Or do I still oversee something ? 

 

Thanks in advance...

Edited June 25, 2023 by Jupp

[Martin_N 153]

Add a magnetic contact to the door to track its position. Connect this contact to IN2 SI. A suitable SI configuration (separation of input and output and parameterization of the input) leads to the cell.

Put OUT1 and the button for opening the door in series. Then Out1 will block your opening button, see previous post.

It is also possible to connect the button to IN1 SI and vice versa to connect OUT1 in series with Out2 and the motor input. Make sure that you use the button to control the SI input and the external one controls the OUT1 SI via the link. Then you get information to the HC about control with the help of a button or with the help of an application, and based on this you can make actions/conditions of the scene. There are many possibilities, you just need to notice and define precisely. SI is really the right module you need.

 

eM.

 

 

[Jupp 1]

@Martin_NWOW...that's a lot information, I have to digest. Thanks for now....I need to try that out. Honestly, some of the information, I  don't understand right now. I am not too familiar with this.

I am just an end User. My HC3 is running for a while now very stable and without any issues. It was implemented by a professional  a few years back. Now, with the additional need of some "use cases", I thought it will be easy to just add one more device. But I see, it is no "out of the box" solution. Many possibilities...yes...But as well many things to do wrong.

 

I think, I will need some days to try things out. The door opener from Meross already has a magnet, that is providing the "door closed" information to the Meross device itself. Maybe I can "mis-Use" it for the SI. So, I need a bit of time to check what you have written. So please not be angry, if I don't provide a "success info" within the next few days.

 

One again. Many thanks for your help and support so far. I will try now to take that over and to solve that. 

 

Hopefully by end of next week, I can provide an update.

 

Best regards.

[Martin_N 153]

@Jupp

From previous experience, I know that very few garage door drive motors can provide information about the door being closed. I mostly keep this state for my own control needs or safety of the position reached. There are those that provide this status in the form of a voltage output (this is not suitable for SI without the addition of a suitable relay that converts it to potential-free), some provide the door status in the form of a potential-free contact (this is suitable for SI input).

If you cannot get the information, it is more appropriate to install your own magnetic contact on the door.

Map the exact type of motor (opening), the exact type of button, the exact type of other elements that you use in the given place for the building function. I will help, but it is necessary to know exactly what is used.

eM.

[Jupp 1]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:58 PM, Martin_N said:

@Jupp

Hello.
You probably don't understand the difference between inputs and outputs.
You have to plug it in exactly the other way around.
So, connect terminals 1 and 2 of the opener (where the button is connected) to output OUT1 SI.
Then you can control your door from SI.
We'll bounce back from that and then deal with other things.

This one I tried today and it worked.

 

So OUT1 from SI to connectors "1" and "2" from the door opener. But here is already a "strange" behavior:

 

Under normal conditions on "1" and "2" is the original button from Chamberlain connected. But this is not a switch to turn on and turn off. It is just a "push button". So the door opener reacts on a single push.

 

SI sets the "OUT1" either to "ON" or to "OFF". So get the door opener to work with SI, I always have to push twice in the YUBI App to get it to work. And because of this, I cannot say:

Switch status "ON" = Door Open

Switch Status "OFF" = Door closed 

 

I had in mind (maybe my naive expectation), that I can use the SI as a Push button as well (in the App). And at the same time I can say, I enable/disable the "Hardware-Button" from Chamberlain with the SI.

 

I will have to read through your other proposals as well (and I have to understand them) to make the next steps. Tough for someone who is not experienced in such things.

 

Thanks again.

[Martin_N 153]

@Jupp

If you have a button connected to input 1 and a "opener" to OUT1 SI, change the settings in the configuration SI.
Change parameter 156 for automatic output shutdown to 0.5sec (value 5) or 1sec (value 10). Test the appropriate time.
If you don't have one, change parameter 20 to 2 (monostable switch) - but that's the default setting.
This setting will handle switching the output back for you.
Test and let me know.
When I get around to it, I'll draw you a wiring diagram for the interlock.

eM

[Martin_N 153]

@Jupp

 

I have drawn two ways of HW blocking.

Please login or register to see this spoiler.

Way V1 = output OUT2 blocks your button.
To open the garage, you need to turn on OUT2 from the application, and then you can activate the OUT1 output with a physical button and thus control the opener. It therefore applies that if OUT2 is not closed, it cannot be opened with the button!

Method V2 = output OUT2 directly blocks output OUT1.
To open the garage, it is necessary to turn on OUT2 and then either use a physical button OR activate the OUT1 output from the APP. It therefore applies that if OUT2 is not switched on, it cannot be opened either with the button OR FROM THE APP.

There is of course another possibility, to go the way of software blocking (scene or QA). But this is maximally transparent for your needs and doable right now, without any need to learn LUA further.

After you "play", please give me feedback on which path you took.

 

eM.

 

 

I'll just add... the connection comes directly from the manual, page 14. And look, there's also a mention of setting the output shutdown time.
He just wants to read it

[Jupp 1]

WOW...many thanks for your support and input.

Since I am no electrician. I have to try to read your drawings. I will have to buy some "thin copper cable", since I don't have anything like this. 

I will try to do it, like you described. Because I want to appreciate your efforts.

 

I cannot assure, that I will going to make it, since this is really hard for me to understand. Please allow me some time to try this. Since I don't want to damage anything, I need to be careful.

 

I will come back to you, once I have results (even if they are good or bad).

 

I found your mentioned Parameters 156 in the Home Center Website (Configuration Site).

But Parameter 20 is not shown there for SI.

 

I will search for this further. But my first quick investigation was not successful.

 

Thanks so far. I believe, you provided anything I need to solve this. Now it's up to me, to understand, what you wrote

[Martin_N 153]

@Jupp

To make your life easier, I am attaching another description.

Please login or register to see this spoiler.

 

...and the others,... look and you won't find it.

eM.

[Martin_N 153]

4 hours ago, Jupp said:

 

 

I cannot assure, that I will going to make it, since this is really hard for me to understand. Please allow me some time to try this. Since I don't want to damage anything, I need to be careful.

 

 

It's actually simple. Line = wire.
A dot where two or more lines meet = junction.

I believe you will succeed. Be careful, check everything... and don't park your car in front of the gate before trying everything

eM

 

[SmartHomeEddy 897]

Be carefull ! 😉

 

 

 

[Jupp 1]

Thanks for your additional effort on this. This helped to find Parameter 20

All this settings need to be done in HC3 at the SI device itself, correct (not on switch 1 or switch 2) ?

 

I will try things out, but surely need some time to understand/digest this (since I am a real noob on this).

 

I will come back, once I have enough time on the upcoming weekend (hopefully).

 

Best regards