fibaro smart implant Wiring Issue

[Nadeem Mohammed 0]

Is it possible to use fibaro smart implant for below scenario
We have wave smart thermostat with single compressor output
But client wants to connect second compressor standalone not link with first compressor ... So if we use this smart implant will it be achieved ...
24V AC POWER thermostat and has below cables 
24V AC  + ,24V AC - , FAN , COMPRESSOR 1 AND COMPRESSOR 2 cables.
Please advise if we can use smart implant to connect one of the compressor to be working according to that 
Also advise correct model to work on as well.

[Martin_N 154]

@Nadeem Mohammed

Hi.

if I honor it like that, I have some confusion about it.

What waves does the thermostat surf on?

Since when does AC voltage have +/- polarity? (24VAC+, 24VAC-).

And it's not entirely clear to me that I intend to use the SI and the second compressor? Should the second compressor be operated independently of the first compressor?

Do you want to somehow use/monitor the status of the output from the thermostat to the compressor type?

 

In any case, you can use the SmartImplant provided that you supply it with power according to the manufacturer's instructions (9-30V DC ±10%). I recommend 12VDC.

So, direct current!

 

The second thing is to remember that the load capacity of the SI output is around 150mA. If you want to switch some appliances (compressor) with a larger load, you must use a relay/contactor.

 

The third thing. You have to pay attention to the output of the thermostat. Some thermostats have a voltage output and could damage the SI. If the thermostat has a voltage output, you must insert a relay for galvanic isolation and only use the relay contacts to switch on the SI input (if you want to monitor the state of the thermostat output for other compressors).

[Nadeem Mohammed 0]

Hello
Thanks for your reply 

yes i want to work second thermostat independent with first compressor

output of compressor 1 is 24V AC not DC which is connected to Contactor to start 3Phase Compressor Load.

SO in my case i want to use smart implant as one of relay to switch 24v AC to signal contactor to start compressor and switch off.

so i am looking for kind of zwave relay module which has input and output of 24V AC to trigger commands as per programming.

Please advise for such devices available in market from any brand to test.

[Martin_N 154]

@Nadeem Mohammed

 

For this case, we recommend using the straight FGS-214/FGS-224 module. They have a separate module power supply from the relay contact. Attention, it is powered from 100-240VAC, or 24-30VDC. If you do not require any connection between the thermostat and the second compressor, you can use the 230V power supply for the module and also switch the 230V contactor for the second compressor. So you would miss the 24VAC supply.

Thanks to the separate power supply from the output, the apartment can be used for 230VAC power supply and 24VAC switching, however, this is not according to the manufacturer's instructions and I do not recommend it for safety reasons.

[Nadeem Mohammed 0]

my only concern is smart implant can take 24V AC input and gives 24VAC output as well ?

if you can clarify will be better for me to understand.

please help me out i want to control blower of AC which has 24V AC signal then give signal to contactor to switch on blower which is 3Phase

[Martin_N 154]

@Nadeem Mohammed

Hi...

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what's so difficult about taking the manual and following one of the connections listed in the manual? Observe the parameters for powering the module, observe the maximum current flowing through the output contacts?

You already write several times about 24VAC, but you don't write what the current (or performance) requirements of the contactor are.

If you take, for example, a contactor from Schneider type LC1D09BD 9A 24V DC and look at the catalog sheet, you will find that at 24VDC it has a consumption of 5.4W both when pulling and holding.

From the above, it can be calculated that the current consumption is 0.225A, i.e. 225mA, so this contactor is not suitable for prime use with SI!

 

I already wrote you how to solve it.

1) SI power supply must be between 9VDC-30VDC

So, put a rectifier or power supply in there that will give you this voltage to run the SI! I recommend removing the 24VDC and using it at the same time to power the 24VDC contactor, or the auxiliary relay, which will only switch the contactor.

2) the current flowing through the output can reach a maximum of 150mA (I recommend keeping it to a maximum of 50mA).

 

This means that if the contactor suits you, you can use it. If it has higher current requirements, you must insert an auxiliary relay into the circuit (for example Finder 40.52.9.024.0000)

[Martin_N 154]

@Nadeem Mohammed

 

See how the auxiliary relay is connected in case of connecting more load than it is able to handle.

I'll try to draw the whole wiring diagram tomorrow, but always consider VDC power for SI.

 

 

 

 

[Nadeem Mohammed 0]

I hope this image can clarify you more......i need to use 24v AC at any cost not 24v DC 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[Martin_N 154]

@Nadeem Mohammed

oh, dio mio...

you are lost case

I've already written it several times and you still can't or don't want to understand it.

So maybe you have some input voltage (power) that you connect to the motor. On one of the phases, they connected a power source and had a power supply for the SI.

These contactors have a consumption of about 5-10W, i.e. a current of about 200-400mA, which means reliable destruction of SI!

[Martin_N 154]

@Martin_N

Ok, I promised to make a sketch when I have some time.
I appreciate your efforts, but I fear for your life.
Below are two variants (and you can think of more...).
Please, if you are not absolutely sure what you are doing, leave this work to an expert! It's about life, health, property.

 

In each country, there are specifics for connecting the electrical system. I don't know your standards.

The motor connection can also be different (some need N, some don't). Connecting the protective PE (GND) should be a matter of course, but again there can be exceptions.

 

Ideally, a circuit breaker or fuse should also be placed in front of the auxiliary power supply.

The fused circuit from the main circuit breaker switchboard is a matter of course - it is not part of this diagram (only indicated by the description).

 

 

Please login or register to see this spoiler.

 

 

good luck..

eM.

 

[Martin_N 154]

Hi..@Nadeem Mohammed

I wonder if there is any reaction to this topic, because it has been 10 days and I realize that I clicked the wrong name for the notification. So I think you didn't notice. Let me know if the diagram helped you, or how you proceed in solving your problem.

eM.

[SmartHomeEddy 1,007]

 Nice diagrams btw

[Martin_N 154]

7 hours ago, SmartHomeEddy said:

 Nice diagrams btw

Eddy.. I know.

I quite unselfishly admit that I am smart... and modest... like Lenin

😁

[Nadeem 2]

Hello Everyone,

Apologies for the delayed response—I lost access to my account and went on vacation shortly after.

Reopening my issue:
I’m looking for a compact relay module that fits into backboxes. However, @Martin_N mentioned that using a 12V transformer might not be feasible.

For my thermostatic switch, I’ve already wired it according to the machine’s 24V AC setup: Line, Neutral, Blower, Compressor 1, and Compressor 2. The switch only has inputs for 24V L, N, Blower, and Compressor 1.

I need to connect Compressor 2 via a relay module with 24V AC input (L, N) and an output for either 24V AC or volt-free contacts.

Thanks!

[Martin_N 154]

We're solving it here!

This is a question that has been unnecessarily asked in multiple subforums

.

 

 

We're solving it here!

This is a question that has been unnecessarily asked in multiple subforums

.

 

[Nadeem 2]

Topic here was particularly talking about smart implant and there was solution apart from smart implant if you can see first message, then it was shaped towards implant,however i am looking more for solution than arguments here.😀

 

[Martin_N 154]

1 hour ago, Nadeem said:

Topic here was particularly talking about smart implant and there was solution apart from smart implant if you can see first message, then it was shaped towards implant,however i am looking more for solution than arguments here.😀

 

 

I understand that you are looking for a solution.

You got a solution to your initial question regarding SI.

I also suggested another solution with

FGS-214/224 (on another subforum, see link).

 

We cannot avoid arguments.

So why are you asking a similar question again in the Smart Implant section, which already excludes the use of SI alone, without any accessories?

So why are you asking the same question in the other 2 subforums? It is unnecessarily confusing.

Perhaps the correct location is in "Device to Switch 24V AC", or in "Looking for Zwave 24v AC input and 24v AC ouput Relay module -1 gang".

However, you posted the Smart Implant wiring diagram in these subforums. Not in the Smart Implant product section.

My argument saved your SmartImplat from destruction if you wanted to use it as you described in another subforum.

 

And not to be just nasty, I commend you for making the effort to think about it (again, from another of the three threads based on this problem).

I will try to adjust the schemas to suit current needs.

[Martin_N 154]

Here is a suggested solution to your problem - with Smart Implant

Please login or register to see this spoiler.

 

 

Another statement regarding FGS-224 is here: