Smart Implant self trigerring for unknown reason

[ThatDude 8]

I use the Smart Implant as trigger to open an outside electric gate (powered by a Nice gate motor). The gate can be opened/closed via a momentary switch, so basically by momentarily shorting two pins on the gates controll module.

 

I've put the Smart Module in a dedicated, hermetically enclosed plastic enclosure, along with a small 12V DC power supply. The DC power supply gets powered from the same line as the gate motor, and the smart module outputs are connected to the appropriate pins in the gate's controll module. The smart module is configured as a momentary switch (auto off after 2 seconds), and the setup works as expected. After trigerring the smart module, the gate opens.

 

BUT

 

On a random day the gate will just start to open/close constantly without any input. The events panel doesn't on HC doesn't show any imputs/outputs/events from the smart implant. This behaviour happens event when the smart implant is not powered on, but just connected to the gate controll module pins. The whole setup can be fine for few weeks, and than one day it will start to cause issues. Disconecting power to the whole gate&implant assembly for a while "fixes" the issue.

 

Two obvious reasons this could happen:

• moisture causes a short on the output pins of the smart module
  • I don't think this is the case, because:
    • this unwanted behaviour happens can happen any time of day or night, during summer, winter, and regardless of weather
    • smart implant is in an enclosed case, does not display any visible moisture indicators (viasually)
    • there are also electronic modules form the gate itself there, and they unaffacted
• electrical interference between module and gate electronics
  • I also don't think this is the case, because:
    • the smart implant and gate electronics are spearated by a thick (3-4mm layer of plastic, and 1cm of air-gap), it would take insane amounts of current to cause intereference
    • I have a different implant mounted on the garage door motor, and it doesn't display such behaviour

 

Did anyone expirienced such a behaviour with the smart implant?

[Brors94 115]

2 hours ago, ThatDude said:

I use the Smart Implant as trigger to open an outside electric gate (powered by a Nice gate motor). The gate can be opened/closed via a momentary switch, so basically by momentarily shorting two pins on the gates controll module.

 

I've put the Smart Module in a dedicated, hermetically enclosed plastic enclosure, along with a small 12V DC power supply. The DC power supply gets powered from the same line as the gate motor, and the smart module outputs are connected to the appropriate pins in the gate's controll module. The smart module is configured as a momentary switch (auto off after 2 seconds), and the setup works as expected. After trigerring the smart module, the gate opens.

 

BUT

 

On a random day the gate will just start to open/close constantly without any input. The events panel doesn't on HC doesn't show any imputs/outputs/events from the smart implant. This behaviour happens event when the smart implant is not powered on, but just connected to the gate controll module pins. The whole setup can be fine for few weeks, and than one day it will start to cause issues. Disconecting power to the whole gate&implant assembly for a while "fixes" the issue.

 

Two obvious reasons this could happen:

• moisture causes a short on the output pins of the smart module
  • I don't think this is the case, because:
    • this unwanted behaviour happens can happen any time of day or night, during summer, winter, and regardless of weather
    • smart implant is in an enclosed case, does not display any visible moisture indicators (viasually)
    • there are also electronic modules form the gate itself there, and they unaffacted
• electrical interference between module and gate electronics
  • I also don't think this is the case, because:
    • the smart implant and gate electronics are spearated by a thick (3-4mm layer of plastic, and 1cm of air-gap), it would take insane amounts of current to cause intereference
    • I have a different implant mounted on the garage door motor, and it doesn't display such behaviour

 

Did anyone expirienced such a behaviour with the smart implant?

 

 

Any old fibaro rgbw controllers in the network? 🤔 They had issues with setting up random assosiations before. Just to cross it off the list of reasons  

Or any1 with the standard remote controller that is *abuse* with you? 😆 

 

and the timer is it set in the scene you use or the parameter of the smart implant? 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2025 by Brors94

[Brors94 115]

What is the type of the nice gate motor? 

Does it mention anything special in the manual about the momentary trigger input? 

[m.roszak 763]

In there anything connected to the corresponding input of the smart implant? Or you are just using the radio to trigger the output?

[Tim__ 126]

Maybe tie your input leads to ground, just in case there is spurious voltage causing them to activate (they shouldn't act as triggers unless you have coded them to, but worth eliminating this as an issue).

[Martin_N 154]

@ThatDude

Hello.

Just try swapping two wires on the SI terminals. In fact, there are no relays in the SI, but there are optocouplers.

I think that there may be some saturation of the internal circuits or stretching of the optocoupler.

Maybe it will help to insert a relay between the SI and the engine control unit for galvanic isolation of the circuits.

Another attempt I suggest is to power the SI directly from the 24VDC provided by the engine control unit and in case of a "fault" not to drag in another level of foreign voltage. Be careful with this. The manufacturer states that the 24VDC voltage for external devices can be in the range of -30% +50% (approx. -16VDC +36VDC).

eM.

[m.roszak 763]

I think that some potential is detected on inputs and this control your output.
As there is nothing connected there you have 1 simple solution for this:
Turn On Local protection in the device settings which disables control from the inputs.

Inputs in monotstable button mode are pulled-up to power supply voltage by small resistor, so another option is bridging inputs with VCC to make sure it is won't be triggered.
So, turn on protection as the easiest option and let me know if this is solved. 

Or... I am wrong, this should be visible in event panel (history) - that output was activated. The only reason this is not visible there is that Lifeline association is not set and we don't have the reports. 
Is device updated to newest firmware?

[m.roszak 763]

Btw., this motor has Nice mono radio build in - you should be able to pair it directly with the hub and get rid of the Smart Implant

[Martin_N 154]

@ThatDude Great work. Just a note. Motor input is waiting for NO.

[Marcin Bereznicki 0]

Hello,

 

The motors often have no 24V stabilization, and the output voltage depends on the grid voltage. Please double-check the voltage across 24VDC pins. If there is more than 30V, this can cause issues with FGBS-222, since specifications allow a maximum voltage of 30V. Moreover, the same voltage is used for supplying SBS input. Probably, when the grid voltage raises to about 250 VAC, the voltage at the SbS pin is much higher than 30 VDC. The output relay in the smart implant is a semiconductor one, and its breakdown voltage is about 32V. You can use two 6.8V Zener diodes facing each other to reduce the voltage at the FGBS-222 output, and the problem shall be resolved. Please check the schematic below.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

[Martin_N 154]

@Marcin Bereznicki Interesting information on the issue. Thanks.

This only confirms my words and galvanic separation of the circuit using a relay will really solve it.

For me, the problem is already on the side of the gate drive manufacturer. With the amount of electronics that is there, a simple 24VDC stabilizer could have been inserted and such atrocities would not have happened.

[Łukasz997 117]

I have two Smart Implants in my gate motor (Tousek T10 - yes, two are necessary to read gate status and manage its movement). The power supply to the SIs comes from a 24 V DC unit (or maybe 12 V DC - I can’t recall exactly) originally intended for powering LED strips. This unit is connected to 220 V AC, where the voltage is much more stable compared to the 24 V DC output from the motor power supply (which is - as it was said - of poor quality).

So why not try a such solution?
Mine has been working flawlessly for over 3 years. The DC power supply wasn’t the cheapest (~50 PLN), but I use no additional diodes, capacitors, or relays.

Edited May 20, 2025 by Łukasz997

[Dan991 0]

Hello,

 

I experienced the very same issue some time ago and, after much frustration, I ended up disconnecting the device entirely. Since I’m not an expert in this field, I initially assumed the malfunction was due to an incorrect installation on my part, even though most functions - such as opening, closing, and partial opening - were working as expected during most of the time.

 

In my case, I noticed the garage gate behaved erratically when the controller’s temperature was high, mainly during the day and never during the evening.

 

However, it operated normally when the temperature was lower. This might be something worth checking in your situation as well.

 

I’m attaching a photo of my gate controller, as I believe we may be using similar models. If you could share a picture of your installation, I’ll try to replicate the setup and see if I can reproduce the same behavior.

 

Thank you,

Dan

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Edited May 31, 2025 by Dan991

[ThatDude 8]

6 hours ago, Brors94 said:

Any old fibaro rgbw controllers in the network? 🤔 They had issues with setting up random assosiations before. Just to cross it off the list of reasons

No, no rgbw controllers in my z-wave network

Quote

Or any1 with the standard remote controller that is *abuse* with you? 😆 

No remotes.

Quote

and the timer is it set in the scene you use or the parameter of the smart implant? 

The timer is set in the parameter of the implant.

 

My next step is to add a capacitor to the power supply to even out any issues with power delivery, as it was suggested in other threads that power irregularities could cause issues like these. I have a spare 1000uF 50v capacitor so it can't hurt. But it will take at least a couple of weeks of testing to see if it helped.

[ThatDude 8]

Bumping up the topic, as I've made some additional attempts to fix the issue:

 

1. Adding a capacitor after the DC power supply.

I've added a capacitor after the DC power supply to even out any potential power supply issues. It theoretically helped a little bit, the gate wouldn't be constantly triggered (constantly opening/closing) once the issue occured, usually it would just spontanesuly open the gate once. Still it was fine for a few days, than it would happen once, be fine for a few days, and so forth.

 

2. Adding a UPS power supply

As a next step I replaced the DC power supply with a capacitor with a dedicated UPS style power supply, that has LiOn battery that is constantly charged from the line power. This means the smart implant was completely isolated from any electrical issues. No improvement, the same issues as in #1

 

3. Moving the Smart Implant to a separate box

I moved the Smart Implant and it's power supply from the gate motor enclosure to a completely separete (hermetically sealed) box placed 3 meters away from the gate motor, to avoid any electrical interference issues. No improvement, the same issues as in #1  

 

I've also noticed that just attaching the Smart Implant to the gate's open/close nodes, without supplying power to the Smart Implant can cause the issue. I have no idea what can cause such a behaviour? Would adding a rectifier diodes between the Smart Implant an the gate motor nodes help in any way?

 

I've also tried using multiple different Smart Implants and it didn't help in any way. As mentioned I have exactly same setup connected to garage door motor, and I have no issues there. Both gate and garage motors are from Nice.

[ThatDude 8]

1 hour ago, Brors94 said:

What is the type of the nice gate motor?
Does it mention anything special in the manual about the momentary trigger input? 

 

The gate motor is the Nice Road 400. The manual does not mention anything special about the step-by-step input. The pin #1 is 24V AC and it needs to close the circut with pin #2. I'm attaching the schematic for the Road 400, the SI is wired in (OUT1) as highlighet in yellow on the schematic.

 

40 minutes ago, m.roszak said:

In there anything connected to the corresponding input of the smart implant? Or you are just using the radio to trigger the output?

 

No, there is no input. The SI is only triggered by the phone app (my main use case). The SI is wired in on OUT1 and powered by a dedicated 12V DC power supply, that is hooked up to the same main power as the gate motor.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[ThatDude 8]

@Martin_N & @m.roszak thanks for your help & suggestions.

 

I'll try the local protection solution, as that's the easiest next step. If that will not help I was also thinking of adding an additional relay between SI and gate pins, to isolate the SI from the gate motor completely.

 

I'm least keen on powering the SI directly from the gate, as you've mentioned the voltage might be unstable, so I'd have to "eat the risk" of damaging the SI, so I'll leave that for last.

 

Once again, thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

[ThatDude 8]

I've traid both swapping the output wires and enabling the local protection, but after just one day I woke up to the gate beeing open at some random point during the night. So unfortunatelly that did not help. Next step is adding a relay between the SI and gate motor, which I plan to do today.

 

On 5/15/2025 at 3:46 PM, m.roszak said:

Btw., this motor has Nice mono radio build in - you should be able to pair it directly with the hub and get rid of the Smart Implant

 That's pretty neat, but contrary to my post signature, in the house where I have the gate/SI issue I have the old Home Center Light which will not support this solution AFAIK.

[ThatDude 8]

The final contraption went into action. The 12V DC power supply is powered by the same line as the gate motor. The PS poweres the SI, the positive terminal of the PS goes to the relay, and negative terminal of PS goes to the SI output terminal. Once the SI is triggered it closes the negative loop to the relay. The gate motor terminal are connected to the NC output terminals of the relay. This should mean that the SI output is isolated from the gate motor terminals until the relay is powered. We'll see if this improves anything.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[ThatDude 8]

1 hour ago, Martin_N said:

@ThatDude Great work. Just a note. Motor input is waiting for NO.

 Yes, of course. That was a typo, of course I use the NO terminal on the relay. Thanks for the correction

[ThatDude 8]

7 hours ago, Łukasz997 said:

...

I use a dedicated 12v DC power supply (exactly as you mentioned a LED power supply), but as it seems so far my issue originated from the fact that the SI output has to be connected to the 24V and step-by-step pins on the gate controller. This seems to be triggering the SI. 

 

A few days since I added the relay and so far so good, but still too early to tell.

 

In a second house I also have a SI connected to a Nice gate motor (different model), and never had such issue.