ZWave Debugging (check the mesh, routing and signal quality)

[Guest jeromefr28]

Hi,

I need to extend the Z-Wave signal to cover the whole house (3 floors x 100m² with reinforced concrete floors).

Currently I have dead node problems , and windows contacts detectors (hsm02 and SM103 everspring) that transmit their opening statement at random.

By installing the HC2 in the middle of the house it works, but since the equipment room of the basement , the problems appear.

Can I replace the HC2 antenna by:

Cable 50 ohms with SMA connector ?

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Antenna omnidirectional 868 Mhz ?

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The Z-Wave mesh networks with the HC2 V1.036 does it really work?

I have :

9 Fibaro roller shutter FGR221

2 Fibaro relay switch FGS221 V1.7

1 Fibaro universal sensor 25/06/2012

1 EZmotion in routing mode

1 Aeon Labs Smart Energy Illuminator

3 AN157 Everspring

1 siren Fortrezz SSA

1 EZmotion

9 everspring hsm02

2 everspring SM103

2 everspring sp814

1 Z-Wave.Me ITEMP (KO)

thanks for your help,

[Guest jeromefr28]

House

3 level of the 100m² (3x100m²)

concrete floor and walls

[Guest Kuuno]

Are dead nodes on the same floor as hc2 or different?

Do fibaro modules get as dead nodes?

Is every level 100m2 or total 100m2?

[Guest Cirion]

What I am experiencing now, is that my nodes wich used to go dead are fine. The difference is that I am expanding my setup and adding more fibaro modules.

I have moved the HC2 into a techical room in the basement with concrete walls and floors. And there are pipes and cables all over the place... Thats when my dead nodes strarted to appear.

I have in total 21 fibaro modules. 13 of them are now installed. Not a single dead node for 3 days. Last module installed 3 days ago.

The house is 150m2 per level and 3 levels. All floors have waterbased underfloor heating. I was worried about range in the beginning, and had to wake dead nodes and use the switches to wake them up.

[Guest Kuuno]

concrete walls and floors with iron inside them can take upto 90% of signal away!

also remember. in zwave mesh network upto 4 devices pass the signal

meaning:

HC2-node1-node2-node3-node4-endnode

so you have to take this into consideration when installing!

best place for Hc2 is pretty much in the centre of the installation or on the side wher emost modules are!

regards

Kuuno

[Lauri 6]

Another important thing to consider is - you have to include new module when it is installed to the location it will stay. It means if you add new module near HC2 and then go to basement and install it there, it may cause trouble. Correct way would be installing the module and then add it to z-wave location - this way HC2 and other modules learn the distance and the route to the new module.

[Guest jeromefr28]

not looking for excuses...

it is obvious that with the HC2 the Z-Wave mesh networks doesn't work.

it is impossible to debug this type of problem with the HC2 V1 : no log, no Z-Wave routing matrix and NO SUPPORT !!

What is the procedure to recalculate routes?

[Lauri 6]

My post was written according to the Z-wave protocol basics. Best result is if you install the slave and then add it to your system.

Have a look

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[Guest jeromefr28]

and for the problem, of polling. Do this test :

1 - stop (shutdown) the HC2

2 - open a window (hsm02 or SM103 everspring)

3 - start the HC2

-> the HC2 does not see that the window/door is open even after 1 hour !

[Guest Cirion]

My point with telling about my installation, is that the HC2 has reconfigured itself just fine. And range is not a problem at all in my house.

I first installed the HC2 in the top floor, because it was closer to where I was installing modules. When 6 modules was installed I moved it to the basement in my tecnical room. That's where I have my mode, router, switch, TV Server, Heating central, Boiler, Ventilation system, Compressor, Gardening tools and the list goes on...

That was the first time I started seeing dead modules. No wonder with that setup

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I'm now up to 14 fibaro modules (still only lights), and there is no more dead nodes. That stopped when I installed my 13'th module 4 days ago. And it was only one going dead by 11 or 12 modules.

The 6 first modules must have reconfigured themselves in the mesh, since I have not done anything to them after installing and adding them to the HC2.

[Guest jeromefr28]

Hi,

Of course that routing network is really working in Home Center 2. Routing abilities also depends of device communication protocol. For instance battery device, in fact, do not have routing abilities (the communicates from time to time) so fully mesh network communication are mostly supported by devices connected to power network (they communicates all the time). Please be sure that Home Center 2 will be placed in central spot also you can try to use other antennas (but there is no guarantee it will help, because Home Center 2 has optimized antenna size). If you will have further questions please fell free to ask. In future we will provide diagnostic tool for routing table preview.

Pozdrawiam,

Regards,

Krystian Bergmann

[Guest jeromefr28]

Hi,

I temporarily installed the HC2 in the house middle and indeed I have less dead node but this confirms that HC2 communicates directly with the modules and not via the routed mode.

The technical local (with an power protection and network switch) is not in the first level but in the basement.

I have many modules with the routing mode :

9 Fibaro roller shutter FGR221

2 Fibaro relay switch FGS221 V1.7

1 Fibaro universal sensor 25/06/2012

1 EZmotion in routing mode

1 Aeon Labs Smart Energy Illuminator

3 AN157 Everspring

1 siren Fortrezz SSA

A diagnostic tool for routing table preview is essential and urgent !

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with the vera :

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pending tool and bug tracker and release note...

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Jerome

[Guest Kuuno]

jerome also make sure you take into consideration the max routing nodes!

from controller to farthest node there can be 4 nodes in between

this is z-wave specific!

[JohnnyC 7]

jeromefr28,

I have just tested your polling issue with an Aeon Labs Door/Window Sensor.

I opened the sensor and turned off the HC2, closed the sensor and turned the HC2 back on. The HC2 recognised the correct state after some time (It was incorrect immediately after restart) but I expect this has something to do with the wake up interval set on the device. I will reduce it and time the polling to see (when I get a chance)

[Guest jeromefr28]

>Hi,

I am not sure if EZ motion, Everspring plugs and fortrezz support latest routing libraries. We've performed many tests on this device and it has old Z-WAVE libraries.

Our z-wave developers made research and they have stated that this devices probably have bugs in its software. It is related with underdeveloped software comunication libraries and because of that comunication with this devices freezes. Our Fibaro modules support full routing functionalities with latest Z-wave libraries. We've tested also Z-WAVE signals using advanced laboratory tools. To be sure that routing tables work also in our modules please create network by adding devices moving away from the Home Center. Also I can ensure you that we will improve communication with problematic modules (ez motion and everspring AN-157) in early December

Pozdrawiam, Regards,

Krystian Bergmann

[Guest jeromefr28]

Hi,

Thank you for your research and answer.

We hope that you will respect your schedule (early december 2012) this time.

regards

Jerome

[Guest jeromefr28]

jeromefr28,

I have just tested your polling issue with an Aeon Labs Door/Window Sensor.

I opened the sensor and turned off the HC2, closed the sensor and turned the HC2 back on. The HC2 recognised the correct state after some time (It was incorrect immediately after restart) but I expect this has something to do with the wake up interval set on the device. I will reduce it and time the polling to see (when I get a chance)

but it does'nt work with the everspring hsm02 and everspring SM103

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[JohnnyC 7]

Have you tried reducing the wake up interval? This will have something to do with the frequency at which it "reports" it's state if not forced by an physical change of state. Most of the battery devices are set at something like 4000 sec.

You could try to reduce this for the purposes of this exercise to see if it helps but anything less than this often has a huge impact on battery life.

The situation you are describing is built around a power failure to the HC2, is this something you think you will experience often enough for the polling of battery powered devices to be an issue? I'm a little intrigued as to how you stumbled across the issue in the first place!

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I assume all the wired devices report their state correctly after restart and the battery ones eventually do? Or if they don't, they reconfigure themselves once the sensor is physically opened or closed? Perhaps a UPS for your HC2 is a solution that would cost less than replacing the 11 sensors.

In my situation I have removed the IP and GSM connections from my home alarm as the HC2 sends the relevant notifications (and more) via push and I have canceled my expensive monitoring service... However.. If the house loses power, the alarm stays working with its battery, but the HC2 and Internet router need power to send me any notifications or for me to remotely arm/disarm or check the status of the alarm

I have a high quality (and paid for the privilege) UPS arriving next week to test alongside my router and fibre gateway. I intend to connect a universal sensor to the "Battery on" and "Battery Low" display outputs. When the power to my house is lost (Battery on), I will receive a notification that my house has lost power. I should be able to receive a similar notification if the power is returned to the house and the Battery On display turns off, however from my first glance at the unit it seems this display output also turns off when the "battery low" display activates. I'll be playing around with it when it arrives but at the very least if I get the first "power loss" notification and not the second "battery low" notification, I could assume the power is back on... Otherwise I'll have roughly 20 minutes to get home....

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Depending on your requirement to test the HC2 after power failure, this could be the best step forward for you...

I'll post my project in a separate thread when the UPS arrives.

[Guest jeromefr28]

" in early December ..."

Once again, Fibaro just proved that they are not trustworthy

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We are December 15 and still no stable release in sight. Just a second beta (july : beta V2 and december beta V3)

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[Guest jeromefr28]

[shadow=red]+2 months[/shadow]

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[Guest sgbirch]

[shadow=red]+2 months[/shadow]

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I have routing table issues with a new HC2, it is quite alarming that Fibaro seems to be ignoring customers. Should I send the box back, this is a huge outlay for an unsupported box.