HC2 refund

[fergalmccarthy 5]

@Fibaro

Can you just tell me what is Fibaro's stance on refunds. I'm not sure about in Poland or other countries, but under Irish consumer law, this product would not be fit for purpose. It does not do what it is supposed to and it was falsely advertised, and still is.

Any comments ?

[deanrparry 19]

I get left with all led lights on when attempting recovery? I'm stuck on 4.017 which is so bloody annoying any advice?

[UrSv 6]

Not in UK and Ireland its not, 2.5 mm2 for sockets and 1.5mm2 for lighting. Its actually fibaro forcing you to use a thin wire, in UK and Ireland anyway as there is no way to get 2 x 2.5 mm2 wires into the relay, hence why you will see, and have a look at google images, hundreds of installations with 1.5mm2 as bridge wire as you are not left with any choice. Fibaro are not alone here by the way, in the race to have the smallest relay /modules they are putting people in danger, especially if someone does the install themselves or gets someone less than qualified to do it.

If you read my post, it says my electrician refused to install them as it would be a breach of safety regulations, so my question is, what can i use the 10+ useless relays for now ?

i.e. 1.5 mm2

yep we like to use cable that would be ok for 20A + in the UK then run it in a ring

Sure that may be the standard in the UK and Ireland, but I can not understand why you would put 2x2.5 mm2 wires into a switch that is not designed for it and I don't undestand why you would put two wires in one hole on the switch at all actually. I have about 10 of those switches and not once have I even thought about doing something like that.

And, BTW, I'm not sure you know but from for Europe I would not say that the UK and Ireland are using what I would call the most common wiring rules, plugs and sockets.

[Guest Kuuno]

We use wago connectors in our installations so no small wires required. But some electrician should confirm this but if you have a short wire like the bridge then nothing bad should happend. If you use long 1,5 gauge wiresthen you will get into a problem but not w the bridge

[UrSv 6]

Wagos are really nice albeit a bit big. In Sweden we use a lot of twist-on connectors as well even if Wago style are getting very common.

[fergalmccarthy 5]

A quote from the reseller than sold me the HC, so I guess the ball will be in there court tomorrow morning

All returns must be pre-approved by Fibaro Customer Support in advance, so at this stage you need to take it up with them ([email protected] ) as they insist the end user must initiate any such requests. I will facilitate a return if they agree to it.

[mclass 0]

Hmm ..... Do I sniff an international class action coming on??!!

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" />

Lawyers will be delighted.

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_laugh.png" alt=":lol:" />

[Guest shapa]

I get left with all led lights on when attempting recovery? I'm stuck on 4.017 which is so bloody annoying any advice?

Well, than it is highly probable that you recovery partition / flash is broken and you already lost all your configs / backups. Like I did. Twice.

While Fibaro support is sleeping (holidays, vacations, etc), I'll try to help you.

When all LED's are lighten up - it means system was trying to boot from a recovery partition but unable to do so / hangs in the middle.

If you are lucky enough and get only minor damage to the file system - it can be fixed.

Fibaro will refuse to do that remotely (no comments, tired to talk about them).

Connect your HC2 to any TV / display (DVI to HDMI cable, VGA monitor, etc)

Have a look at the screen. You'll probably see the some filesystem corrupted messages.

In case of that, install (virtual machine is fine - free Oracle virtualbox, vmware player / fusion, parallels, etc) some modern Linux (ubuntu, centos, whatever) and we will try to fix file system issues (also to check the flash status) - I'll provide linux commands to do that.

Also you'll probably be able to copy your backups (at least virtual devices / lua / etc).

It is very simple and much faster than to wait for any feedback... It’s raining cats and dogs.

[dw89 8]

Just my four Penneth which may help or not....

UK wiring standards are safest in the world....that's why we use 2.5mm for sockets. 1.5mm with 240v for mains sockets, certainly if you have spurs or spurs off spurs (which a lot of people do 'after' electricians have been and gone when building a house(!)) can easily cause a fire as ampage on cable doubles every time you spur. Don't ever use 1.5mm in UK it's illegal and will cause a fire at some stage if someone does something like the above. To get around the bridge you just would use a 15A connector block or similar Wago.....but to be honest if you don't know what you are doing leave it well alone!!! If whatever is being used is not up to the job rating wise for load and cable then don't use it! If you use 1.5mm and have a fire, the fire investigator will find the fault and your insurance will be invalid....makes you think doesn't it!

Not sure I would personally use one in a socket, but then I've not really looked at it tbh.

Oh and as far as legal issues go it's quite simple (in uk anyway). Retailer is bound by the sale of goods act and distance selling regulations if bought over the phone or internet. If you bought over the internet they will be bound by both, which helps in different ways. For the first six months after any 'faults' are seen as inherent and you don't have to prove a thing.....you can just ask for refund due to the fact it doesn't do what it says it should I.e. 'Not fit for purpose', 'unsatisfactory quality' etc and basically doesn't do what it says on the tin (all in sale of goods act section 3). After the six months it is for you to prove the problem (which shouldn't be hard) but you have up to 'six years' to take it to court....yup, six years! Also, your contract in uk law is with the reseller so, as much as you may not want to do so, it is them that you should take it up with and, if needed, take to court...Fibaro has nothing to do with it in any way shape or form. If they have any knowledge of the system (and the law), they will give you a refund but if it's over six months they may chance their arm as it would be you that would have to take it to court (small claims) or a lawyer. But, especially in this instance, you would 100% win. My advice would be to make your mind up on what you want to do/achieve and speak to a lawyer and/or check out the laws as I stated above.

Personally I'm waiting for a stable 'actual' release (not a useless Beta or whatever it is) that I can use and which will fix these bloody motion sensors so I can actually use what I bought! If It doesn't arrive by the end of the six months from when I bought my £3ks worth of stuff the above is exactly what I will be doing. I personally feel very sad for the retailer because it's not their fault but in uk law that's who one has to pursue. I dearly hope Fibaro sort it out soon otherwise, at that time, anyone else is welcome to join me to do the same.

KR, Dave

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" />

[j.nowacki 5]

As many users before, I want to make it clear: our modules can be connected 2.5 mm2 wires, only thing needed far safe installation witch such thick cables are some Wago connectors. Also connectors used in our modules are typical connectors used for power supply and can easily sustain high current.

[fergalmccarthy 5]

Ok but what about the refund status for HC2?

[ Added: 2014-09-16, 14:00 ]

Still awaiting a reply and I have also emailed [email protected] as directed by the reseller, and this so far has been ignored. 36 hours without response and counting. If this is the level of support for even initial contact, i'm not impressed, but i'm sure my mail has probably put the cat among the pigeons within Fibaro, or they are all still at CEDIA...

[ Added: 2014-09-17, 19:47 ]

65 hours now without response Fibaro, if I don't have acknowledgement by friday I shall just start with legal proceedings. This is ridiculous that you just ignore a mail that is only following your own process for returns as I've been instructed by the reseller.

[ Added: 2014-09-19, 19:48 ]

Guys i'm am very annoyed, that is 5 days now without even acknowledgement. I did warn you, and will now begin the legal proceedings that I warned you of. All you had to do was acknowledge even that you were looking into it, but its too late for that now. I am following your own process, now I will take this to the small claims court and will keep this thread updated so other users see how little you care about your customers.

[ Added: 2014-10-11, 15:17 ]

Well after weeks of being ignore, i emailed the Sales director, he was no more helpful than any of the staff that ignored my request.

Anyways the long and the short of it is, Fibaro will not accept a return as they don't not accepting that the firmware is broken. They obviously have blinkers and rose tinted glasses on.

If the firmware wasn't broken, why are they re-writing the Z-Wave engine, its not just to add new functionality, it is because it is broken.

I feel it is my duty to warn the many millions of Americans about these issues before they are fooled like the rest of us with the sales material. An just to note, V4 is far from what one would expect. Based on the Alpha and Betas, its a very poor "step forward".