Fibaro wall Plug

[JanJoh 1]

Well in this case you as a user have caught a to big of an elephant for your wire.

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The wire can only take 1500kg if you have a elephant in panik

2500kg for sleeping elephant (max 2.5kW resistive load)

1500kg for elephant in panic (max 1,5kW on all other loads)

Nope. It will still handle the 2500kg elephant (inductive load) as long as it stays still (Phi of 1)

[speedy 64]

Well in this case you as a user have caught a to big of an elephant for your wire.

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The wire can only take 1500kg if you have a elephant in panik

2500kg for sleeping elephant (max 2.5kW resistive load)

1500kg for elephant in panic (max 1,5kW on all other loads)

Nope. It will still handle the 2500kg elephant (inductive load) as long as it stays still (Phi of 1)

That's what I said

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The wall plug will handle 2,5kw or 1,5kw depending on the load.

2500 resistive OR 1500 inductive.

You can't buy a wire expecting it to handle 2500 panic load when it is rated at 2500 for non panic.

[JanJoh 1]

Well in this case you as a user have caught a to big of an elephant for your wire.

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The wire can only take 1500kg if you have a elephant in panik

2500kg for sleeping elephant (max 2.5kW resistive load)

1500kg for elephant in panic (max 1,5kW on all other loads)

Nope. It will still handle the 2500kg elephant (inductive load) as long as it stays still (Phi of 1)

That's what I said

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The wall plug will handle 2,5kw or 1,5kw depending on the load.

2500 resistive OR 1500 inductive.

You can't buy a wire expecting it to handle 2500 panic load when it is rated at 2500 for non panic.

Where dö you find conclusive proof that the plug will actually handle 1500w inductive?

[speedy 64]

Well in this case you as a user have caught a to big of an elephant for your wire.

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The wire can only take 1500kg if you have a elephant in panik

2500kg for sleeping elephant (max 2.5kW resistive load)

1500kg for elephant in panic (max 1,5kW on all other loads)

Nope. It will still handle the 2500kg elephant (inductive load) as long as it stays still (Phi of 1)

That's what I said

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The wall plug will handle 2,5kw or 1,5kw depending on the load.

2500 resistive OR 1500 inductive.

You can't buy a wire expecting it to handle 2500 panic load when it is rated at 2500 for non panic.

Where dö you find conclusive proof that the plug will actually handle 1500w inductive?

The manual.

[JanJoh 1]

The manual.

Which, as I have stated, may not be correctly reflecting reality.

[speedy 64]

The manual.

Which, as I have stated, may not be correctly reflecting reality.

How do you know that?

Have you conducted tests on the plug or is this something you think?

[JanJoh 1]

The manual.

Which, as I have stated, may not be correctly reflecting reality.

How do you know that?

Have you conducted tests on the plug or is this something you think?

There is less then 0,5mm between some of the the 230V tracks and integrated circuits in the wall plug.

I have read the report from Elsäkerhetsverket which states that you may get an arc as low as 1700VAC(!)

I spent a few years at chalmers studying electrical engineering

But, why not put it to the test? As you can see from the attached picture i have a few plugs laying around.

Howabout we connect them all to a load of, say, 1000W with a varying phi of 0,4-0,8 ( i have access to a fake load with variable properties) and do a simple on/of cycle at a rate of 30 operations per minute. I am willing to bet atleast one of them fails within a couple of thousand cycles.

In addition to that, i have two plugs which handles 2200W heaters, i am willing to bet that those would easily do 30 000 cycles with the same setup without problem.

If i am right however, someone better give me 5 new units as i will not trust them any more after such a test. If i am wrong, i will donate all five to you.

Deal? (Yes, I am that certain i can make a wall plug fail with an inductive load way under the rating on the product)

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[speedy 64]

The manual.

Which, as I have stated, may not be correctly reflecting reality.

How do you know that?

Have you conducted tests on the plug or is this something you think?

There is less then 0,5mm between some of the the 230V tracks and integrated circuits in the wall plug.

I have read the report from Elsäkerhetsverket which states that you may get an arc as low as 1700VAC(!)

I spent a few years at chalmers studying electrical engineering

But, why not put it to the test? As you can see from the attached picture i have a few plugs laying around.

Howabout we connect them all to a load of, say, 1000W with a varying phi of 0,4-0,8 ( i have access to a fake load with variable properties) and do a simple on/of cycle at a rate of 30 operations per minute. I am willing to bet atleast one of them fails within a couple of thousand cycles.

In addition to that, i have two plugs which handles 2200W heaters, i am willing to bet that those would easily do 30 000 cycles with the same setup without problem.

If i am right however, someone better give me 5 new units as i will not trust them any more after such a test. If i am wrong, i will donate all five to you.

Deal? (Yes, I am that certain i can make a wall plug fail with an inductive load way under the rating on the product)

So you really don't know. You are just guessing, (guesswork

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First of all, the 0,5mm distance has nothing to do with the load, ever.

These things are separate.

This is an issue that effects the plug by itself and is connected to voltage not current.

Meaning that if you insert the plug in the wall there is an issue even if you don't connect anything to it.

Now i have also read the repport and nowhere does it say "The relay in the plug does not work as advertised and can't handle inductive loads."

This is something different. The relay is good for 1,5kW inductive load, end of story.

There is no proof that this isn't the case anywhere.

And lets be realistic here, nowhere in our homes do we have a cos Phi of 0,7 ever.

And to test to 0,4 is just ridiculous.

Everything these days have phase compensation built in.

Florescent lights have about 0,96 cosPhi.

But lets for argument sake use cosPhi of 0,7 (this will never ever occur in our homes)

We don't and can't use these plugs for heavy duty welding gear..

P = 1500W

CosPhi = 0,7

Apparent power = 1500 / 0,7 = 2142 VA = 2142W with cosPhi of 1 (resistive load)

Current = P / (U * cosPhi) = 1500 / (230 *0,7) = 9,3A = Not acceptable according to the manual max 8A. (to high current when we use a crazy cosPhi)

So if you think you can't connect 1,5kW inductive load well then you should be more worried with your 2,5 kw resistive load as this puts greater stress to the plug than 1,5kw inductive with a cosPhi of 0,7 (which never occurs)

If you want to test your plugs well then go ahead.

You have a 2 year warranty so there won't be a problem replacing them if they don't work as advertised.

And if they work after your test, well then just send them over

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[goran 9]

It would be really interesting to see how the plugs would handle a test like that. Most of my Fibaro wall plugs have already died (not melted though). This is after perhaps 50 on/off cycles, most of them connected to normal lights. I can't exchange them for new ones because the swedish reseller is not allowed to sell them and god knows if/when version 2 shows up here.

[speedy 64]

It would be really interesting to see how the plugs would handle a test like that. Most of my Fibaro wall plugs have already died (not melted though). This is after perhaps 50 on/off cycles, most of them connected to normal lights. I can't exchange them for new ones because the swedish reseller is not allowed to sell them and god knows if/when version 2 shows up here.

You should return them right away, don't you want your money back?

Get relays or dimmers instead and install behind your sockets.

[JanJoh 1]

So you really don't know. You are just guessing, (guesswork)

This is something different. The relay is good for 1,5kW inductive load, end of story.

There is no proof that this isn't the case -anywhere

Not quite guesswork. My first plug failed after about a week with 20x54W T5 Fluro. Did not fail catastrophically. It just stopped working.

The replacement lasted about a month then it fused in the on position with the same load.

Now I got a proper contactor and control that with a relay module.

[goran 9]

You should return them right away, don't you want your money back?

Get relays or dimmers instead and install behind your sockets.

I was kind of hoping for v2 of the wall plug but since it never seems to become a reality I'm probably done waiting. I probably should get my money back. I have a couple of Fibaro relays but after having seen all the stories about them (also!) getting scary hot I have actually removed them.... I have wall plugs from two other vendors as well and so far they work perfectly (except in HC2, but what does).

[ivalentinov 0]

JanJoh and speedy you guys made my day with your explanations

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I will not be buying any more of those, it should not be that hard to operate them and that easy to melt them, also i am not returning the unit to Fibaro 'coz i am not willing to pay for them to investigate eventual fault in their units.

Hope you guys will not have any of my problems, i am still not giving up on Fibaro just getting realy cautious

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[JanJoh 1]

JanJoh and speedy you guys made my day with your explanations

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I will not be buying any more of those, it should not be that hard to operate them and that easy to melt them, also i am not returning the unit to Fibaro 'coz i am not willing to pay for them to investigate eventual fault in their units.

Hope you guys will not have any of my problems, i am still not giving up on Fibaro just getting realy cautious

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The thing Is (as I see it) that the ONE thing that separates the wall plug from EVERY other radio controlled plug in switch module on the market EVER is its size.

I mean look at it.. It is tiny and beautiful.

Now, I do not for a SECOND think that EVERY other manufacturer has NOT realized that people want small, sexy, beautiful stuff.

So, either they design their devices as large and clunky as we see with Everspring or all others because they are GENUINELY stupid.... Or maybe (just maybe) their devices are that large because that is what happens when you design such equipment and take every regulation and contingency into account...they get large.

Look at the equipment from Siemens or Schneider their plug in modules are also quite large , and at is from companies that (quite frankly) most likely spend more on coffee to their offices in a day than the entire Fibaro group turns over in a year. Do not try to tell me that those companies would not design something small and sexy if they thought they could bring such a product to market.

[Dino 0]

As Fibaro is not going to respond to this issue I will ask Eneco, the energy company who have bought quite a huge number of wall plugs if it is save to use the wall plug for a micro wave. Will send them this post.

I am wondering which Dutch authority is looking after the safety of electric equipment.

[j.nowacki 5]

We would like to address all concerns regarding safety of using FIBARO Wall Plug that appeared earlier in this thread.

Our modules fulfil all necessary EU standards that are needed for safety operation for this kind of device, they can be found in Wall Plug Manual. Security of our users' homes has always been highest priority for our company, hence we carefully monitor every case of modules malfunctioning reported to us.

In this particular situation, close examination of damaged device is crucial to detect source of the problem. We made every effort to bring it to our lab as soon as possible. Once we receive it, all procedures required to diagnose cause of failure will be conducted with highest care.

If you have any concerns regarding safety matters, please contact me directly with PM or send an e-mail to our support team: [email protected]

[Dino 0]

Fibaro thank you for your reply. Just an advice not criticism. Next time don't let these kind of posts come this far.

Jump in earlier and react on "single" customers concerns and not when a large Company like Eneco is starting asking questions. I have send my question to Eneco at 12:30 PM.

I wil send you a PM and ask you if I can safely use it for my micor wave and if the wall plug is CE certified as many products of Qubino seems to be.

[ivalentinov 0]

I just saw the PM from j.nowacki and he is offering a door-to-door service, which is something that i expected in first place, however at first he stated that they will not do that and i should ship it to them, that is when i wrote my post (10 of October), unplugged the working one and threw both of them in the garbage

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I wish I have waited for Fibaro longer to decide that they would cover the shipment, but i honestly thought that there is something fishy at that moment and I just don't have the energy nor the time to investigate and it seemed easier just to not use the wall plugs (as i explained, this is just a test setup with very few sensors/actors).

I apologize to Fibaro and it's community. I am willing to accept the blame for the wall plug melting as at the moment i can no longer prove otherwise.

The moderators may lock (or delete if that helps) this thread to avoid any speculations!

[j.nowacki 5]

ivalentinov, standard procedure includes shipping, so door-to-door was offered as exception in order to investigate this issue. Unfortunately in that situation we will not be able to examine module to find possible case of its failure. If any other user encountered similar problem with any of our devices, please send me PM without hesitation.