Let's sue Fibaro

[cristimv 2]

Before throwing some rocks in me, think a little bit....we all have been waiting since months, years (someone correct me if I'm wrong), to get a stable release. To all the major bugs, the same answer "we are working on, it will be fixed with the new V4"....which we all saw these days, after so much time waiting, it is a disaster. So far, it seems the only money they spent is in marketing....lies beautiful wrapped in an Apple like commercials.

So, I think this kind of behavior should stop, and someone should pay for all the time lost by each of us, and also for possible damages brought so far. With all this bad publicity, do you think you will find someone to buy your controller?

So my proposal would be to organize ourselves, get a lawyer and sue the company.

What do u think?

[ Added: 2015-01-07, 23:17 ]

@Fibaro: if you delete this poll, then this will answer even better the question in case. Just to be on safe side, I've saved some printscreens.

[robmac 173]

Bark Path. Wrong.

[dhanjel 7]

Please man, get real. Even if the situation could have been better. This will in no way improve the situation.

[U5tabil 2]

I'm not suing anyone.... like dhanjel it wont improve anything.

[cristimv 2]

I'm not suing anyone.... like dhanjel it wont improve anything.

each of us have different acceptance levels; for me, and what I see here on this forum, this level was breached since a while; but again, it is each of us decision what to do from here

[tcviper 20]

Sueing companies is something that is done a lot in the USA, but in Europe I think we should focus on communication and clarity. In this case I simply suggest Fibaro to open up communication with customers and actually respond to bugs being reported on the bug tracker.

So no, Im not gonna sue anyone

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/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> I still love the HC2 and the update still works fine here.

[Joost_NL 0]

The upgrade to version 4 is a major upgrade. The Fibaro team did a lot of work to rewrite the Z-Wave engine. Besides that they added a lot of new features.

I did the upgrade to the new version. Because I didn't want any conversion errors I started with a recovery to a fresh system. Then I did the upgrades and when I was on version 4.030 I started adding my devices again. I didn't have any major problems. In my case there are some minor bugs (wrong label, no parameters on door sensor) but the system is working very stable. I had a few questions for the support team and they respond very fast. The block scene editor is much better, many of my old lua scenes are now possible in the block scenes.

If you don't want to take any risks, just don't upgrade to the first few releases of such a major upgrade. Give them some time to perfect their system.

The major change of the Z-Wave engine is giving us a system that is ready for the future.

[Dannyboy 12]

Joost_NL: Have they ever delivered what they promise? How much time is reasonable to fulfill what they promised years ago? Another two years? Four years? Meanwhile new customers waste their time and money, fooled by fairy tale marketing and you (we) are essentially helping them perform their scam by NOT acting.

I don't think sueing will lead to any other result than feeding lawyers. But as responsible citizens we should do what we can to prevent fellow humans to waste their money like we have. This can be done eg by actively communicating the scam in social media, Internet forums, mouth-to-mouth and by reporting the company to marketing authorities in our respective countries and EU.

It may not help us that are already in this * but it will help a lot of other people and statute an example of the importance for companies to live up to their marketing promises in the future.

[deanrparry 19]

I have pretty much pissed off every member of Fibaro and it looks like it was worthwhile! I am slightly impatient but also know when to hold back and say "your turn"

It is currently Fibaro who has the ball in there court (ironic)

The past few days have seen a lot more communication and intergration with users and development!

It is a NO from me...

[robmac 173]

Definitely no from me. The guys you deal with in support and devs are fantastic. The vision is still the best. I want them to succeed.

As I expected my hc2 is good again. A few minor things but after a few things cleaned from the database that were probably from the beta it is all running well.

Very pleased that downloadable recovery is evidently possible now. I hope they will make that formal with a download button for when recovery is corrupt. So that is a big improvement.

[SDeath 68]

Definitely no from me. The guys you deal with in support and devs are fantastic. The vision is still the best. I want them to succeed.

As I expected my hc2 is good again. A few minor things but after a few things cleaned from the database that were probably from the beta it is all running well.

Very pleased that downloadable recovery is evidently possible now. I hope they will make that formal with a download button for when recovery is corrupt. So that is a big improvement.

Yes it saved my system from a corrupt recovery, I never had any of the 4.x Beta's and never seen any problem on 3.x. But it seems quite stable although not without problems I'm certain it get's fixed. And I think it will be a great system, if they continue in the same direction as they have showed us last months. Regular updates and active support.

They can be the best they are, the interface looks are beyond anything else I have seen.

Now all it needs is bug fixing and focusing on stability and support for as much devices as there are.

Their products look the best from all of them, so people can choose between price (other brands) and looks (Fibaro). The more devices they support the larger the community will get.

Have two teams. One that focuses on bug fixing and another for new features in new releases, and setup a Beta team that will test for them, it has proven valuable to do it. But never release a version until it's rockstable for at least 95% of the users, with that as a goal you'll make yourself invincible.

And please I beg you this, don't release incremental updates only release full updates, lot's of problems I think are caused by some files not being replaced with the new ones correctly.

Also this will make a restore procedure soo much easier, instead of having to go through all those previous versions. How about in 5 years and we need a restore, we'll be busy for a week just to go through all the versions.

[robmac 173]

Definitely no from me. The guys you deal with in support and devs are fantastic. The vision is still the best. I want them to succeed.

As I expected my hc2 is good again. A few minor things but after a few things cleaned from the database that were probably from the beta it is all running well.

Very pleased that downloadable recovery is evidently possible now. I hope they will make that formal with a download button for when recovery is corrupt. So that is a big improvement.

Yes it saved my system from a corrupt recovery, I never had any of the 4.x Beta's and never seen any problem on 3.x. But it seems quite stable although not without problems I'm certain it get's fixed. And I think it will be a great system, if they continue in the same direction as they have showed us last months. Regular updates and active support.

They can be the best they are, the interface looks are beyond anything else I have seen.

Now all it needs is bug fixing and focusing on stability and support for as much devices as there are.

Their products look the best from all of them, so people can choose between price (other brands) and looks (Fibaro). The more devices they support the larger the community will get.

Have two teams. One that focuses on bug fixing and another for new features in new releases, and setup a Beta team that will test for them, it has proven valuable to do it. But never release a version until it's rockstable for at least 95% of the users, with that as a goal you'll make yourself invincible.

And please I beg you this, don't release incremental updates only release full updates, lot's of problems I think are caused by some files not being replaced with the new ones correctly.

Also this will make a restore procedure soo much easier, instead of having to go through all those previous versions. How about in 5 years and we need a restore, we'll be busy for a week just to go through all the versions.

If they can give recovery file hope soon it will be new version with the option to upgrade for each version

[SDeath 68]

Definitely no from me. The guys you deal with in support and devs are fantastic. The vision is still the best. I want them to succeed.

As I expected my hc2 is good again. A few minor things but after a few things cleaned from the database that were probably from the beta it is all running well.

Very pleased that downloadable recovery is evidently possible now. I hope they will make that formal with a download button for when recovery is corrupt. So that is a big improvement.

Yes it saved my system from a corrupt recovery, I never had any of the 4.x Beta's and never seen any problem on 3.x. But it seems quite stable although not without problems I'm certain it get's fixed. And I think it will be a great system, if they continue in the same direction as they have showed us last months. Regular updates and active support.

They can be the best they are, the interface looks are beyond anything else I have seen.

Now all it needs is bug fixing and focusing on stability and support for as much devices as there are.

Their products look the best from all of them, so people can choose between price (other brands) and looks (Fibaro). The more devices they support the larger the community will get.

Have two teams. One that focuses on bug fixing and another for new features in new releases, and setup a Beta team that will test for them, it has proven valuable to do it. But never release a version until it's rockstable for at least 95% of the users, with that as a goal you'll make yourself invincible.

And please I beg you this, don't release incremental updates only release full updates, lot's of problems I think are caused by some files not being replaced with the new ones correctly.

Also this will make a restore procedure soo much easier, instead of having to go through all those previous versions. How about in 5 years and we need a restore, we'll be busy for a week just to go through all the versions.

If they can give recovery file hope soon it will be new version with the option to upgrade for each version

They told me they weren't going to do that and like all boxes to stay on their original recovery versions, no idea why?

[robmac 173]

Definitely no from me. The guys you deal with in support and devs are fantastic. The vision is still the best. I want them to succeed.

As I expected my hc2 is good again. A few minor things but after a few things cleaned from the database that were probably from the beta it is all running well.

Very pleased that downloadable recovery is evidently possible now. I hope they will make that formal with a download button for when recovery is corrupt. So that is a big improvement.

Yes it saved my system from a corrupt recovery, I never had any of the 4.x Beta's and never seen any problem on 3.x. But it seems quite stable although not without problems I'm certain it get's fixed. And I think it will be a great system, if they continue in the same direction as they have showed us last months. Regular updates and active support.

They can be the best they are, the interface looks are beyond anything else I have seen.

Now all it needs is bug fixing and focusing on stability and support for as much devices as there are.

Their products look the best from all of them, so people can choose between price (other brands) and looks (Fibaro). The more devices they support the larger the community will get.

Have two teams. One that focuses on bug fixing and another for new features in new releases, and setup a Beta team that will test for them, it has proven valuable to do it. But never release a version until it's rockstable for at least 95% of the users, with that as a goal you'll make yourself invincible.

And please I beg you this, don't release incremental updates only release full updates, lot's of problems I think are caused by some files not being replaced with the new ones correctly.

Also this will make a restore procedure soo much easier, instead of having to go through all those previous versions. How about in 5 years and we need a restore, we'll be busy for a week just to go through all the versions.

If they can give recovery file hope soon it will be new version with the option to upgrade for each version

They told me they weren't going to do that and like all boxes to stay on their original recovery versions, no idea why?

That would be mad as soon they will be supporting 10s of versions. They need to kill some off and end support on them and the only way they can completely stop worrying about versions is to give us all a 4.x recovery then all 3.x can stop being supported. Saves them money and time.

[SDeath 68]

That would be mad as soon they will be supporting 10s of versions. They need to kill some off and end support on them and the only way they can completely stop worrying about versions is to give us all a 4.x recovery then all 3.x can stop being supported. Saves them money and time.

I totally agree, not to speak about the hassle for us. In 5 years we'll have to go through 20 or 30 versions just to restore.

I hate the concept of incremental updates, it can create so much problems of not handled correctly. I'd rather see full updates it gives us free motion to switch to each version.

[Milos797 2]

Guys, you can trust me, this update is bothering me a lot, as I am reseller. But to be honest, just think about this - I am using Nexus 4, without rooting it... I got Android 5 update. My phone is turning of and on on daily basis, my camera get stuck every time I try to take few pictures, If I take a video, my phone is not even able to play it smoothly with the original Photo galerry, sometimes I cant hear people, sometimes my calls just stupot...

Yes, it is google, maybe the world biggest company. Yes, I was very exciting about new update. And Yes, there are some people with Android 5 and happy with it. But thats it for me. I can search forums and I can give it hours to fix it, but to SUE google, because of update, that would not work. I just have to wait for update where all those bugs will be fixed.

That is how it works. Updates are something new, something, what usualy change a lot of things. And of course, there are possible problems on every corner of that. Well maybe fibaro pushed it out because of CES, but this is nothing we can deal with.

And I am quite happy that fibaro made a hotfix, I only wish google would be as fast.

So guys, just give it a time. It was disaster the first day I could see, but you can see Fibaro guys are working on it.

And on the other side, jest see the forum few months/weeks ago! Fibaro, where is 4.0? Where is the update? Fibaro, why the update is still not here... You pushed it as well a bit.

And yes, fibaro has thousands and thousands HC2 out there. The topic with update 4.0 has 32 pages... Not all of you has a problems...

[cristimv 2]

Thanks to all of you who voted or even reply to this. As it was mentioned in the begining, this was a test....still it is sad that 65% would just sit/wait/complain and not act. Don;t get me wrong, this poll wasn;t about getting any financial benefit out of it, but just to send out a message. You know there is a saying in Romania (i'm sure there are similar phrases in other countries) "our customer is our master"..........................................................................................

[Dalle1985 16]

So what exactly would you sue them for? Aggrevation? Providing software with bugs in it (last time I checked, that wasn't a crime)? I think you should read the terms of the license and I bet you will find that you really don't have a whole lot of options here.

Unless the product is at fault in injuring you or causing damage to your property (and the burden of proof lies with you here) there is nothing to sue them over.

[JanJoh 1]

Unless the product is at fault in injuring you or causing damage to your property (and the burden of proof lies with you here) there is nothing to sue them over.

Wrong. They have, on several occasions, advertised functionality that does not exist.

That is something you can haul them to court for.

I remember a marketing picture of a mobile client with a dialog "XBOX has been running for more then 4 hours. Turn off?" And a yes/no dialog.

I remember Motion sensor being advertised as being able to count people in rooms (without even any example code etc)

I remember smoke sensor being advertised with the black box graph way before it was available as a GA feature.

I remember several advertisments claiming OTA upgradability, and as a statement of fact, not an upcoming feature.

and so on... and so on...

[dhanjel 7]

I remember a marketing picture of a mobile client with a dialog "XBOX has been running for more then 4 hours. Turn off?" And a yes/no dialog.

I remember Motion sensor being advertised as being able to count people in rooms (without even any example code etc)

Off topic, but:

I think it was playstation

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Motion sensor example:

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