Advice on lighting control modules

[freddyq 0]

Hi all, 

 

Hoping I can get some help. I've got two lights I'm looking to get control of with the right Fibaro modules and my Smartthings hub.

 

First is a straightforward single non-dimmable toggle light switch so I'm guessing the "Single switch 2" module is the one I need for that? The light is an outdoor one with two 9w fluorescent lamps - would there be any issue with controlling a light with 18w total? 

 

Second is a double light switch in the hallway. One of the switches on this controls two separate lights in the hallway. The other switch controls lights in the upstairs landing. What I want is control of just the switch which controls the two downstairs lights - is that possible? If so, how and which module would I need? 

 

Third is a single toggle switch which controls all the downlights in the living room. The bulbs are all dimmable so what I'd like is the ability to control these lights and dim them from the app. I know I'd need a different switch if I wanted to be able to dim from the switch as well but I don't need that. So do I use the "dimmer 2" module for this?

 

I should point out that all my backboxes are deeper than standard as I deliberately had these installed for the Fibaro modules when the house was renovated. 

 

Any help would be much appreciated! 

 

TIA! 

[freddyq 0]

Anyone? 

[Sankotronic 2,370]

Hi @freddyq

 

1) It is ok to use single switch for outdoor fluorescent light but only if you have available neutral (N) wire in the switch box. If you have only two wires in the switch box of which one is live (L) and other is going to the light then you will have to use dimmer 2 module because only dimmer 2 module does not require neutral wire. You can still adjust parameters to just turn it on/off without dimming. But there is a catch if your fluorescent light is with passive filter because dimmer 2 does't like inductive loads and usually refuse to work with them. So, first step is to check your installation by opening switch box and also checking type of the fluorescent light.

 

2) Lights in hallway can be controlled either by relay switch module or with dimmer 2 but it raises same question about available wires in the switch box and type of light.

 

3) Downlights in living room is the best to control with dimmer 2 but again you must check what is total power consumption of this lights since dimmer 2 is limited to 250 W.

 

Of course, control lighting with switches and mobile devices will be good for you at the beginning, but in future you may plan to add motion & light intensity sensor so that lights are turned on by your presence.

 

[freddyq 0]

Thanks for your reply @Sankotronic I will check whether I have neutral wires coming down to the switches or not and let you know. 

1) The outdoor light is this one: 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

There is no mention of passive filter but can you tell whether it will be ok? 

 

2) So the dimmer 2 or relay will be able to control both switches independently? What's the difference between using the dimmer 2 and relay? Is it just ability to dim lights? 

 

3) the downlights are 5w each and there are 15 of them so well within the max wattage. 

 

Thanks! 

[Sankotronic 2,370]

Hi @freddyq

 

1)Link you provided to me is for house number light with LED lamp, not fluorescent. For this lamp, fluorescent or LED is ok to use relay module and I believe that you will turn it on at sunset time when outside became dark, and turn it off at sunrise when outside became light?

 

2) Difference between relay module and dimmer module is ability to dim lights and also dimmer 2 can work without neutral (N) wire, while relay module requires netural (N) to work. Also power they can switch is different, dimmer 2 200-250W while relay can switch up to 2kW depending of course on type of load and voltage supply.

 

3) Yes, 15 x 5W = 75W is ok for dimmer 2 to handle.

[freddyq 0]

Thanks! 

1) Oh I read on one website it was fluorescent lights - see this link for bulbs: 

Please login or register to see this link.

But yes absolutely right. I want to be able to turn it on and off based on sunset and sunrise times. 

 

2) So will I be able to control both of the switches in the hallway independently  with a dimmer 2 or relay? 

 

So I think the main thing for me to find out is whether I have neutral wires coming to the switches. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by freddyq

[freddyq 0]

Also sorry, for the downlights in my living room, if I have the dimmer 2 wired up and I dim the lights and then for whatever reason my hub goes offline, if I toggle the physical light switch what will happen? Will I be able to put the lights back to full brightness from the switch or any other way? 

[Sankotronic 2,370]

1 hour ago, freddyq said:

Also sorry, for the downlights in my living room, if I have the dimmer 2 wired up and I dim the lights and then for whatever reason my hub goes offline, if I toggle the physical light switch what will happen? Will I be able to put the lights back to full brightness from the switch or any other way? 

Yes. Modules work with switches even control gateway is out of order.

 

2 hours ago, freddyq said:

Thanks! 

1) Oh I read on one website it was fluorescent lights - see this link for bulbs: 

Please login or register to see this link.

But yes absolutely right. I want to be able to turn it on and off based on sunset and sunrise times. 

 

2) So will I be able to control both of the switches in the hallway independently  with a dimmer 2 or relay? 

 

So I think the main thing for me to find out is whether I have neutral wires coming to the switches. 

Yes, you need to find out what wiring you have in the switch boxes,

[freddyq 0]

Hi @Sankotronic so I checked behind my light switches and found the following:

 

1) Switch for outdoor light: I see 4 wires, 2 of which are blue so I believe that means there is a neutral wire at the switch and I can therefore use the Fibaro single switch 2? Do I need to worry about the type of bulbs or total wattage still or can the single switch handle anything? 

 

2) 2 gang light switch in hallway: there are quite a few wires behind this presumably because a) there are two lights sets of lights being controlled and b) because one set of lights can also be controlled by another switch. Anyway, I saw a couple of brown wires and a couple of blue amongst others so I'm not sure if there is a neutral wire there or not. How can I make sure? 

 

3) Single switch for living room downlights - behind this I saw one blue wire, one brown and one green/yellow. So I guess there is no neutral at this switch but the downlights are dimmable so I would need the dimmer 2 anyway which doesn't require neutral. Right? 

[Sankotronic 2,370]

Hi @freddyq

 

1) that is perfect. You can then connect relay switch according to provided instructions or download one from 

Please login or register to see this link.

. Relay can handle outside light no problem. But please be careful and don't forget to flip fuse before any work on wires!

 

2) You will have to check each wire where it goes and mark them before any connection is done. If it is possible to contact electrician who was doing the installation would be the best. If you are on your own then just be careful, electricity can be dangerous! Sorry but I can't help you in this one.

 

3) For dimmer you don't need neutral, so only what you have to check with probe which wire is live and which goes to lights and you are ready to install dimmer using provided instructions.

 

Just please be safe before any work on electricity!

[freddyq 0]

Thanks @Sankotronic I will definitely take precautions before attempting any wiring! For 1, I'm comfortable I can attempt this as everything seems fairly straightforward. With 2, I think you're right I will get an electrician to have a look. For 3, in terms of which wire is live and which goes to lights, can I not tell from the connections on the back of the switch that each wire is going to?

[Sankotronic 2,370]

Well, for 3 you can tell from the connections but I always like to be on the safe side and check with probe (screw driver with indication lamp that is lit if touching live wire) for my safety and safety of the equipment.

 

I'm electrician for years and never had bad experience but only because I believed only myself! I mean, what if live wire is not connected to L terminal on switch but wire that goes to lights? It will still work because it is just a switch and it really doesn't matter how you connect wires, but on dimmer if you mix wires then it just won't work and in the worst scenario you can have burned dimmer module.

 

So if you will listen to an old electrician , you can buy this cheap screw driver probe and find out which wire is live before disconnecting wires from switch. That is minimum you can do to make it right.

 

You can also check wires for hallway lights but for this you will need more expensive multimeter but probably getting electrician is in your case cheaper solution. Take that opportunity to check all other spots where you plan in future install FIBARO modules and you are not clear how to do it!

[freddyq 0]

Good advice and thanks again @Sankotronic  I am much clearer on what I need and how to d more it. If I do it all myself I will get a probe - I think it will be useful to have even for future. 

[freddyq 0]

Hi @Sankotronic I have one other question...I've noticed the Fibaro relay switches were not upgraded to Gen5 to use Z wave plus. The single switch does have a Gen5 version so am I better off using that for the outside light? 

[Sankotronic 2,370]

41 minutes ago, freddyq said:

Hi @Sankotronic I have one other question...I've noticed the Fibaro relay switches were not upgraded to Gen5 to use Z wave plus. The single switch does have a Gen5 version so am I better off using that for the outside light? 

 

@freddyq,

 

Of course you can use single switch module since you actually need only one switch, but there is also double switch modules Gen 5 at least on Vesternet:

Please login or register to see this link.

 

[freddyq 0]

Cool. Yea that's true, I suppose there's nothing stopping me using a dual relay but for a single switch is there? 

[freddyq 0]

Another suggestion made to me is actually to use the dimmer 2 even for the outdoor light and change the relevant parameter so it can be used for on/off function. This way, in case I need to repurpose the module in future to control dimmable lights I have that option. Would there be any issue with that?

Edited December 21, 2016 by freddyq

[Sankotronic 2,370]

18 hours ago, freddyq said:

Another suggestion made to me is actually to use the dimmer 2 even for the outdoor light and change the relevant parameter so it can be used for on/off function. This way, in case I need to repurpose the module in future to control dimmable lights I have that option. Would there be any issue with that?

Yep, to use dimmer is also ok. dimmer can be used as On/Off device, I use two of them like that, for garage and parking light.

[freddyq 0]

Great thanks. Although due to low wattage of outdoor light I would need a dimmer bypass I believe...

[Mo19 1]

Hi guys, can i step in to this 2 person conversation with the following suggestion: When it comes to  LED lamp or fluorescent, or CFL or any sort of energy saving bulbs, in my oppinion, the perfect module from Fibaro is Dimmer 2 WITH 3 wire connection! it can control both dimmable and non-dimmable lights and it has soft start so it will not weld like the relays from Fibaro. What do you think about that? I may be wrong, but it's worth to think about it, right?