Keyfob promise vs real possibilities

[HomeSystem.sk 69]

Hey, 

I am looking at the KEyFob promo page and I realised something many of my customers struggle with. So Fibaro says using KeyFob is easy and intuitive. Then there is picture of the gardener with functions like "Reduce the time of sprinkling".

Ok we, people on this forum, know that it is possible by creating virtual device with buttons that can control the sprinkle panel and then creating scene which triggers this button if needed... But that is nothing like "easy to use".

The same goes for holiday mode of heating...

 

So here is an idea, why dont you Fibaro make this more usable. Why dont you allow users to start holiday mode for heating from mobile apps, why dont you allow users to actually reduce the time of sprinkling without creating VD (many users has no idea how to do it). IS this something that you are at least working on? 

 

The sprinkles is horrible, if you want really to control it by weather you need to create VD for it. Why is this not possible for normal users without any knowledge? Should be part of "USER FRIENDLY INTERFACE" right?

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[Sankotronic 2,370]

I must agree with you. HC2 is everything but user friendly. Block scenes are just small step toward that friendliness same as various panels and plugins. But if users want more then they just have to roll up sleeves and learn program in LUA.

 

But there is always a catch. This is home automation and there is so many things that can be done, some even in many different ways, so if you want to make system more user friendly then you just have to give up on some of the possibilities. On the other hand if you want to have powerful system that gives freedom and endless possibilities then you have to give up on friendliness. Besides we should not forget security which can have great impact to openness and abilities of the system.

 

Middle way is most ungrateful because on one hand it doesn't give normal users enough simplicity and on the other hand for power users it just isn't open and powerful enough.

 

HCL should be on the path to be friendly for most of the users but everyone who ever try this box knows how limited it is.

HC2 should be on the path to be open and powerful for the power users but also friendly to others and that is its burden.

 

I think that HCL will be gradually replaced with Homekit solution because Homekit provides quite nice simplicity for most of the users and it is fancy since it provides speech control that is good enough for most.

 

But I'm really wonder what is the future for HC2? Is Fibaro going to replace it with even more sophisticated and complicated system or at least finally release system that will support user plugins? I think that future for HC2 is in user developed plugins which will make everyone happy. Power users because they will have a good tool to make home automation really powerful. That will on the other hand satisfy other users because plugins will make system more friendly for them, powerful but easy to setup.

 

SO ANSWER TO ALL OUR PRAYERS IS THAT FIBARO FINALLY ENABLE USER DEVELOPED PLUGINS!  

[robmac 173]

You know other than watering + and - all of those are possible very easily with the magic scene + remote control functionality enabled by Scene Controller or Scene Activation function. When you think about it Scene Controller or Scene Activation  + magic scene is an internal  ITTT for fibaro. Less and less requires LUA. 

 

I still use the scheduler I wrote 4 + years ago with a few extensions I made to prepare for the plugin version I have. I don't run the plugin even though it is better because I just can't be bothered with the hassle of installing it. It still works fine but the basic scheduling in magic scenes would do a lot for a person with no technical capability. It has no catch up or sunrise/sunset or nice alarm device but I probably would not have bothered writing the scheduler if it had existed when I bought my HC2. 

 

I don't know how well all this stuff scales and how it would run if you had a lot of it configured. I already had a mature system when it was introduced and I do normally operate a "if it is not broken why fix it" policy most of the time (other than last week in a moment of madness).

 

 

 

 

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Edited March 5, 2017 by robmac

[HomeSystem.sk 69]

3 hours ago, robmac said:

You know other than watering + and - all of those are possible very easily with the magic scene + remote control functionality enabled by Scene Controller or Scene Activation function. When you think about it Scene Controller or Scene Activation  + magic scene is an internal  ITTT for fibaro. Less and less requires LUA. 

 

I still use the scheduler I wrote 4 + years ago with a few extensions I made to prepare for the plugin version I have. I don't run the plugin even though it is better because I just can't be bothered with the hassle of installing it. It still works fine but the basic scheduling in magic scenes would do a lot for a person with no technical capability. It has no catch up or sunrise/sunset or nice alarm device but I probably would not have bothered writing the scheduler if it had existed when I bought my HC2. 

 

I don't know how well all this stuff scales and how it would run if you had a lot of it configured. I already had a mature system when it was introduced and I do normally operate a "if it is not broken why fix it" policy most of the time (other than last week in a moment of madness).

 

 

 

 

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Yes that is all nice, but I am talking about the other part of the scene. Triggers are not an issue, but how would you start holiday mode for heating with the magic scene? there is no option for that. Or how would you pospone the wattering if the weather station says it is raining. Again, no way to do it with magic scenes.

 

I understand that you can use block scenes for watering... but that is not the case for a big instalations. One of my clients has 23 heating zones in the house. Can you imagine how many scenes would it take to create normal working schedule? And how difficult would it be for user to change the temperature when the summer comes? 

 

There is simply missing the function to change any settings in panels from the phone.

[robmac 173]

 I doubt this functionality is aimed at you or your clients. For an average house a lot of this stuff will work. I don't see myself touching it. What worries me more is that Fibaro love to stop anyone doing anything a little bit different. They destroy LUA and lock things down that would make it good. If this becomes the only way to do things on my HC2 it will be in the bin as fast as any other festering bit of rubbish.

But for the average house and user... this and panels as actors will be fine.

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[alandee 79]

I think the advertising is more aimed at the end user. It it intuitive to use, as is the HC2 .. but not to program. You can achieve anything with the system, it just takes someone to install and setup who is a very lateral thinker. Thinking of ways around my limitations of knowledge expands my knowledge, and the keyfob actual usage is pretty intuitive looking. ( what happens behind the scenes not so much  ! )

Having said that, I'd be happier if there was an alternative that gave us a keyfob type remote with a screen, so we didn't need to remember cryptic assignings of actions/VD's or Script to a button. I'm getting old and have to refresh my bloody itunes password each time I go to use it because I forget, I'm the same with my minimote and I'll be the same with the fibaro keyfob. If I had a straight screen with buttons that i can tap or add to it would be even better in my opinion as then I could label them as turn the sprinklers down or open / close the observatory shutter ..

Anything quicker than loading up the actual app would be good I think. I've got a bunch of vd's that i run at the moment, but opening the full app is a bit slow to be useful.

 

anyways just my 2c

 

Cheers,

al.

 

[akatar 208]

it's just seems promo video's is just for promo, nothing more

 

just like the promo video for the fibaro pir, you can count people entering or leaving you're home... no way... never

[robmac 173]

and the original promo was even more far fetched. fibaro man and his house that almost read his mind thanks to the fantastic Fibaro HC2.

[robmac 173]

where is Dean for some truly sardonic comment on the joys of fibaro promo?

[Jamie mccrostie 82]

The funny thing is other than the key fob the first post could have been dated 2014, from what ive read not much has changed.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Jamie mccrostie

[robmac 173]

more marketing porno than promo?

[Jamie mccrostie 82]

But we are all having fun still arent we

[robmac 173]

Fountains of eternal optimism.

 

If scientists could tap into our positive thinking that it will all be like the promos one day they could fix the universe.

[HomeSystem.sk 69]

I understand that this is only promo, no question there. And I am the one who said we should not get upset about the promo, as for example "redbull give you wings" (but it really doesnt right...).

But in my opinion why they are pointing in promo to the weak spot of the system? 

15 hours ago, robmac said:

 

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for this, it is still just a condition. As I said trigger (condition when it should happen) is not a problem, but show me what do you run by this trigger. There is no way (without VD) to postpone sprinkle in fibaro. Lets say - IF it rains (you have this right, thats ok) THEN postpone the watering for 1 day (this is the part you can not do!)

[robmac 173]

So true @HomeSystem.sk but for many things Fiabro have implemented  "if this then" as you say the limit is on some missing  "that".

 

Having said that I can not see that exposing actors to this framework is going to be a big deal.  As http://????/docs/#!/panels/modifyDrencher is there it is just a little bit of configuration glue to add it to this "Magic" UI and generate the correct call to complete internal ITTT for HC2. I dare say it will just be some lines in an xml config file to add the panels to the interface.

 

How they have achieved all of this in the background will define how well it will scale but for smallish installs it has to be OK and possibly also for bigger if their code is good.  

 

Would I want to manage lots of disparate little magic scenes with snips of the overall logic?

 

No, so I doubt any commercial configuration team would want this either. I think that is reflected in your attitude to it. Just not what you need if you can code in LUA and in so many ways it would be a step backwards for many of us. Much simpler to manage all actions in a single LUA events scene. That is what I will do when the functionality is working. Catch all of the events for a device in a single scene and have all logic for managing it in one place. Much easier to manage and look after. 

 

If you can't code then you would probably think this is great until it gets too complicated with hundreds of little hidden scenes. Then the user will need to learn LUA or if you are lucky just call a professional installer who can unravel it all.

 

 

 

[akatar 208]

54 minutes ago, HomeSystem.sk said:

I understand that this is only promo, no question there. And I am the one who said we should not get upset about the promo, as for example "redbull give you wings" (but it really doesnt right...).

But in my opinion why they are pointing in promo to the weak spot of the system? 

for this, it is still just a condition. As I said trigger (condition when it should happen) is not a problem, but show me what do you run by this trigger. There is no way (without VD) to postpone sprinkle in fibaro. Lets say - IF it rains (you have this right, thats ok) THEN postpone the watering for 1 day (this is the part you can not do!)

there is a difference between things as : fast as lighting, wel youre car isn't,

you see a commercial with a car driving on the road, and after buying the car you see it isn't driving.

 

so real expectations or things people are saying (don't know the englisch word for this)

(in nederlands: uitspraken en gezegdes)

 

 

 

 

[robmac 173]

or in latin caveat emptor

[shaunfrost 9]

I got my keyfob this morning, used a coin to open the back, it ripped the plastic.. took the battery out and removed stickers, put battery back in and closed (with difficulty) and the LED didn't come on.. because the plastic shredded just OPENING IT! I can't reopen it..

its going back as a useless piece of cheap soft plastic.

 

Never even got to add it to the HC2!

Bobbins.

[T.Konopka 8]

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[petergebruers 1,268]

1 hour ago, shaunfrost said:

I got my keyfob this morning, used a coin to open the back, it ripped the plastic.. took the battery out and removed stickers, put battery back in and closed (with difficulty) and the LED didn't come on.. because the plastic shredded just OPENING IT! I can't reopen it..

its going back as a useless piece of cheap soft plastic.

 

Never even got to add it to the HC2!

Bobbins.

 

I'm sorry this has happened to you. It almost happened to me too, I know what you are talking about. It's too late for you, but to offer help to other users, I have updated my topic with this information:

 

 

"Inserting the battery. Please do not use a coin. Use the attached ring instead, it's a perfect fit. After opening, please check if the rubber seal (black o-ring) is properly seated onto the outer rim. If you have to use force to open or close it, a small amount of grease on the o-ring may help!"

Edited March 6, 2017 by petergebruers