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[SOLVED]FIbaro wall plug FGWP102 trouble maker?


Sankotronic
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Hello Fibaro community!

 

This is my story I want to share with you so that if you find yourself in this story don't have to go through whole process like I had!

 

Few months ago I had a lot of trouble with my internet ADSL connection. First of all it was slow for my fast growing home automation, but also I had problems with occasional disconnections and failing speed. Due to my frequent complaints my internet provider finally send servicemen to check what is going on. He checked my internet connection and find out that it is capable for VDSL and that my old Siemes router is source of all my problems. He replaced old ADSL router with new VDSL router ZXDSL 931 from Chinese ZTE Corporation. During installation he told me that this new router is a trouble maker but that they don't have any other better model to offer at the moment.

 

So, he did his homework and after just half hour I had new much better internet connection. Since he told me that this router can be trouble maker I connected it to Fibaro wall plug FGWP102, version 3.2 so that my Angelina (HC2) can reset it if internet connection is lost.

 

At the beginning everything looked just fine. Now when I look back, there was some problems like camera loosing stream for a split of a second, or HC2 web GUI home page stop refreshing, but I blamed camera and my Angelina. Also, every time when we wanted to watch some movie on Apple TV, we had to pull network cable from Apple TV and connect it back to be able to connect to my iTunes library, but again I blamed last tvOS which I installed by chance just around time when new VDSL router was installed.

 

Anyway, we could live with all this little troubles, but then things start to get worse and worse until last week when I loose my mind. I had to refresh HC web GUI pages very often because it was just stopping showing current state, especially when I didn't touch it for some time. Every morning when I wakeup my Mac, web GUI was showing state from last night when I put Mac to sleep. Also, devices start to loose connection to the internet even router was connected. Several times I couldn't connect to the HC locally or remotely even three LED's from the right side on the front panel were lit and z-wave LED was flashing normally. After rebooting HC it was ok for some time.

 

At first I blamed network switcher so I replaced it with new and better one. But all trouble remained and get even worse. Every time after rebooting router it was ok for short time and then problems again. It is interesting that BOSCH thermostat was always first to loose internet connection and is connected over WIFI. Then next was Philips HUE bridge connected with wire and then almost all our mobile devices one by one.

 

I spent yesterday all evening until late hours investigating and when nothing else left I decided to remove Fibaro wall plug and connect router power supply directly to socket. After that all my problems with network and internet despaired! From that moment until now everything is back to normal. My BOSCH thermostat is happily connected to the internet, my Angelina this morning was showing current status after waking my Mac, wakeup music this morning sounded better, Angelina's good morning greeting was not missing and, oh God, even coffee had a better taste :-) 

 

So, even it may sound impossible, that small nice looking Fibaro wall plug was source of all my troubles! Now I remember, during Christmas time, I was using Fibaro wall plugs to control our Christmas lights and first evening when I turned them off, children called us to see stars in their bedrooms. It was really interesting because even plugs were turned off, small LED's where still faintly glow in the dark!

 

Also at the beginning I used Fibaro wall plug to control our TV. But I had to remove it because I noticed that sometimes when I turned On TV with the plug at first picture was scrambled and then get blank and only sound remained! Then I had to turn it off and back on to get picture! After removing wall plug no trouble with picture any more!

 

I have one Fibaro wall plug that was delivered to me faulty from Vesternet. Since I was away from home I could not return it within their return policy time. Now I know that whatever element Fibaro uses to turn on/off connected devices it is not relay but some electronic element possibly triac that can cause trouble to some switching power supplies. I will disassemble that faulty plug to see what is really inside.

 

So, before you start twitching your hair and blaming your HC or any other device in that matter for troubles you have, check first what is connected to Fibaro wall plug and try how it will work if plug is removed!

 

Thank you very much for reading my essays! Maybe you find them useful or maybe not :-) 

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@Sankotronic The skill of elimination :-D a important tool in the fibaro tool kit 

So often when something goes wrong we look for complicated issues when fix is quite simple. You would never think of that wall plug causing all those issues.

 

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Thanks for sharing!

 

Is it possible that your router had a pending firmware update, and that by removing the wall plug, the device was rebooted and then installed the update?

 

Do you have multiple switches? And/or SONOSnet? That might cause partitioning of your network.

 

Is it possible that you have (had) duplicate IPs? This could be caused by the replacement of the router (overlapping DHCP database) if the router's implementation isn't very good.

Edited by petergebruers
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  • 1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

    Thanks for sharing!

     

    Is it possible that your router had a pending firmware update, and that by removing the wall plug, the device was rebooted and then installed the update?

     

    Do you have multiple switches? And/or SONOSnet? That might cause partitioning of your network.

     

    Is it possible that you have (had) duplicate IPs? This could be caused by the replacement of the router (overlapping DHCP database) if the router's implementation isn't very good.

     

    Hi @petergebruers,

     

    There was no pending updates. My internet provider never updates routers once they install customized firmware. If there is a problem, they just replace them with new cheap model from China ;) 

     

    I do have two Sonos speakers so probably they have their own WIFI net to sync music but that is definitely not source of this problem. I do have two network switches too. One switch is in the living room to which internet router is connected and Apple Airport Extreme for WIFI with other stuff, and other one is at my working desk. They are connected to each other with power network modules. Anyway, there is no partitioning of my home network. It was like this for long time and was always working nicely.

     

    I did setup DHCP server on router to lease only IP addresses from 100-254 while lower range I use for devices on static IP. I'm very careful with that so I never had two devices with same IP address on my network. Besides when this problems became obvious I sniffed my network frequently and all looked ok and as expected regarding IP.

     

    Problem was there even when I disconnected everything from my network and leave only internet router and my iPhone connected on router WLAN. I know I didn't mention everything what I done to find out source of the problem but I did my homework and it took me some time. I'm not LAN expert, but know few things about LAN and this was really strange problem and it disappeared after I removed wall plug. 

     

    I really want to know what switching element is used in this wall plugs since some types can generate harmonics and these can influence switching power supplies. How you can explain faintly glowing LED's when connected to wall plug that was switched off?

     

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    25 minutes ago, Sankotronic said:

     

    Hi @petergebruers,

    (...)

    I really want to know what switching element is used in this wall plugs since some types can generate harmonics and these can influence switching power supplies. How you can explain faintly glowing LED's when connected to wall plug that was switched off?

     

     

    I see. Thanks for explaining. It still seems a bit unlikely, but I can only talk about the older Wall Plug. It certainly uses a relay. Also, it does not leak... I've tested this with an LED lamp (one that I know is glowing on e.g. a Dimmer 1 or 2) and I've measured current passed through it with a Fluke 8808A bench multimeter at mains voltage: it's less than my measurement threshold and that's about 0.003 mA. On the other hand, this "glowing" LED only needs about 0.01 mA to show visible dots, and 0.02 mA to be clearly on. This is typical of so called "driverless LED lamps", like the ones with the yellow filament like structures. The only explanations that I can think of at the moment: you have a newer Wall Plug and it's a different design (it might have a snubber or a varistor to suppress transients - pure speculation, I don't own one and I don't know), It's faulty (something leaks internally), or it's because, by design it switches only one of the two pins.

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    I have to look closer into this. I have several old Fibaro WP, a handful of other brands mostly Aeotec, and lately I also bought a bunch of new Fibaro WP. I have experienced problems with both my washing machine and my dishwasher. My dishwasher (Mile) has recovered and normal ops restored after removing the new Fibaro WP. The electronic circuits in my Samsung washing machine appears how ever to be permanently damaged. Service man due next Tuesday...

     

    Both machines stopped during normal program cycle. The purpose of the WPs were just to monitor the current and tell me when the wash was ready. 

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  • On 4/12/2017 at 2:24 PM, petergebruers said:

     

    I see. Thanks for explaining. It still seems a bit unlikely, but I can only talk about the older Wall Plug. It certainly uses a relay. Also, it does not leak... I've tested this with an LED lamp (one that I know is glowing on e.g. a Dimmer 1 or 2) and I've measured current passed through it with a Fluke 8808A bench multimeter at mains voltage: it's less than my measurement threshold and that's about 0.003 mA. On the other hand, this "glowing" LED only needs about 0.01 mA to show visible dots, and 0.02 mA to be clearly on. This is typical of so called "driverless LED lamps", like the ones with the yellow filament like structures. The only explanations that I can think of at the moment: you have a newer Wall Plug and it's a different design (it might have a snubber or a varistor to suppress transients - pure speculation, I don't own one and I don't know), It's faulty (something leaks internally), or it's because, by design it switches only one of the two pins.

     

    The LED's I refer are these:

     

     

    I have two versions of wall plug. One is 25.25 and this newer 3.2. Router was connected to this newer one, and that faulty that I receive and will disassemble I think is newer version. Anyway, if you agree I will send you picture of disassembled one and then we will know more hopefully.

     

    If ti is still relay inside, then there must be something that is leaking on both pins.

     

    Edited by Sankotronic
    Attachment quota filled up / deleting older stuff sorry :-(
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    21 minutes ago, 1152 said:

    I have to look closer into this. I have several old Fibaro WP, a handful of other brands mostly Aeotec, and lately I also bought a bunch of new Fibaro WP. I have experienced problems with both my washing machine and my dishwasher. My dishwasher (Mile) has recovered and normal ops restored after removing the new Fibaro WP. The electronic circuits in my Samsung washing machine appears how ever to be permanently damaged. Service man due next Tuesday...

     

    Both machines stopped during normal program cycle. The purpose of the WPs were just to monitor the current and tell me when the wash was ready. 

     

    Ouch! Out of curiosity... where these set to "always on" to only monitor consumption? I also wonder if the Samsung has a damaged power supply...

     

    20 minutes ago, Sankotronic said:

     

    The LED's I refer are these:

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

    I have two versions of wall plug. One is 25.25 and this newer 3.2. Router was connected to this newer one, and that faulty that I receive and will disassemble I think is newer version. Anyway, if you agree I will send you picture of disassembled one and then we will know more hopefully.

     

    If ti is still relay inside, then there must be something that is leaking on both pins.

     

     

    That's almost certainly the kind that glows (assuming that it doesn't have a transformer, only a small box with or without a button to select a program).

     

    This is the 5 W 220 V driverless LED that I used to test leakage. It glows brightly on a dimmer or a solid state relay in "off" state...

     

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  • I manage to disassemble wall plug that never worked. On the bottom PCB has inscription FGWP011 v0.4 and installed z-wave chip is third generation ZW0301 G1432VS EU+ and it should be newer Gen5 version because I just checked that I ordered Gen5 version. It has definitely relay that switches one pin while other pin is always on.

     

    All this still makes me wonder why is now everything ok with my network when I removed wall plug from router power supply. Is it just coincidence? Not so possible because I was having this problems for days, actually weeks, but last week get worse than ever before. I have 19 wall plugs, most of them older version, 25.25 and some newer version 3.2 and this is first time that I noticed possible problems.

     

    BTW, it is really amazing piece of device and how Fibaro engineers manage to squeeze all those elements and relay in such small place!

     

    I was planing to put the plug back and test again, but internet provider's serviceman came few hours ago and replaced ZXDSL router for Speedport V724. I will still connect this new router to same wall plug and then see what will happen.

     

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    Hi @petergebruersBoth new Fibaro WP (FGWP102 v3.2) were first "just plugged in". When I experienced problems I did set both to always on. Problem, e.g. program stopping during wash  cycle, remained unaffected. Ad for the Samsung I will have to wait for the service tech.

     

    @Sankotronic Please keep us all posted. So will I.

    Edited by 1152
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  • 1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

    That's almost certainly the kind that glows (assuming that it doesn't have a transformer, only a small box with or without a button to select a program).

     

    You are right, and now when I checked, plug was turned that way that relay was switching off neutral while live was alway on. This Christmas LED's don't have transformer, but just box with button to change program :) 

     

    BTW, when you are looking plug from front side (where appliance is connected) and button is looking up then it is left pin that is not switched by relay. Since in my house all sockets have live wire on left pin most of my Fibaro wall plugs are switching off neutral while live stays alive. :P 

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    On 12.4.2017 at 2:42 PM, 1152 said:

    I have to look closer into this. I have several old Fibaro WP, a handful of other brands mostly Aeotec, and lately I also bought a bunch of new Fibaro WP. I have experienced problems with both my washing machine and my dishwasher. My dishwasher (Mile) has recovered and normal ops restored after removing the new Fibaro WP. The electronic circuits in my Samsung washing machine appears how ever to be permanently damaged. Service man due next Tuesday...

     

    Both machines stopped during normal program cycle. The purpose of the WPs were just to monitor the current and tell me when the wash was ready. 

     

    First answer - Samsung Washing Machine: Service man changed mother board. The machine has been working hard for a few days catching up. No problems so far. FGWP102 may very well be innocent, but I switched back to Aeotec ZW075-C16 for peace of mind.

    On 12.4.2017 at 2:42 PM, 1152 said:

    I have to look closer into this. I have several old Fibaro WP, a handful of other brands mostly Aeotec, and lately I also bought a bunch of new Fibaro WP. I have experienced problems with both my washing machine and my dishwasher. My dishwasher (Mile) has recovered and normal ops restored after removing the new Fibaro WP. The electronic circuits in my Samsung washing machine appears how ever to be permanently damaged. Service man due next Tuesday...

     

    Both machines stopped during normal program cycle. The purpose of the WPs were just to monitor the current and tell me when the wash was ready. 

     

    Second answer - dishwasher. Miele GS5835 SCU XXL rated 230V 10A 2200W, basically a resistive load I presume. When I tried to remove the FGWP i found it stuck and could not remove it from the Schuko. As it turned out it had melted se pics.This one going back on a warranty claim. BTW the dishwasher is apparently undamaged and now under control of a AEOTEC ZW075-C16 WP 

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    @1152 washing machine has some capacitive load motor and pump with element part resistive.

    Definitly looks like the heating is in the  phase plug pin and not the socket.

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    9 hours ago, Jamie mccrostie said:

    @1152 washing machine has some capacitive load motor and pump with element part resistive.

    Definitly looks like the heating is in the  phase plug pin and not the socket.

     

    Agree, btw the WP having trouble was the one on the dishwasher. The dishwasher also has a motor driving the pump, hence likely a capacitive load. But my assumption is that this is a relatively small load, while the heating element being resistive is the major load. Bottom line I don´t see why the FGWPE/F-102 ZW5 should not handle the Miele GS5835 SCU XXL rated 230V 10A 2200W. Nor do I understand why it should fail the way it did...

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    23 minutes ago, 1152 said:

     

    Agree, btw the WP having trouble was the one on the dishwasher. The dishwasher also has a motor driving the pump, hence likely a capacitive load. But my assumption is that this is a relatively small load, while the heating element being resistive is the major load. Bottom line I don´t see why the FGWPE/F-102 ZW5 should not handle the Miele GS5835 SCU XXL rated 230V 10A 2200W. Nor do I understand why it should fail the way it did...

    True proberly a bad connection in FGWP.

    For what ever reason they have never produced these for au nz market, may be its to small, so I dont have much experience in them.

    If your not returning it pull it apart and you might see where the heating has tracked from

    I guess if you had a fault in the dishwasher it may draw more than 10 amps 

    But thats happened over time  and looks localised to FGWP

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  • There are two screws that holds lower PCB to the pins and makes contact. If that was not tightened properly then this can easily happen. I dismantled one that I get faulty.

     

    BTW I removed plug again from router and now also from my access point because there was problems again with communication to the internet. I just don't have time to test this thoroughly but I'm going to play on the safe side for now.

     

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  • After almost a month of testing and checking influence of Fibaro smart plug on my router and WiFi access point I can definitely say that Fibaro smart plug is NOT source of my problems with network and internet. So, in that time when it seemed that I get sorted out my problems with my home network and internet connection by removing smart plugs was pure coincidence.

     

    Just last days I again fought with my internet provider since I had same problems as before and since smart plugs where removed in that time they couldn't do any influence. At the end it was my internet provider that was main source of my problems with internet connection. Luckily for me, they are always ready to help so problem was finally sorted out.

     

    As for my home network, since I replaced network switch and sorted out my network cables everything functions perfectly fine.

     

    I can now confirm that all of my 19 Fibaro smart plugs working fine same as appliances connected to them. 

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    On 5/15/2017 at 11:17 AM, Sankotronic said:

    I can now confirm that all of my 19 Fibaro smart plugs working fine same as appliances connected to them.

     

    Hi @Sankotronic,

     

    Do you still have your WP's controlling things like dishwasher, washing machine, etc.? And are they able to take these loads (non-resistive types)?

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  • On 10/24/2018 at 12:58 PM, LeeSteventon said:

     

    Hi @Sankotronic,

     

    Do you still have your WP's controlling things like dishwasher, washing machine, etc.? And are they able to take these loads (non-resistive types)?

     

    Yes.

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