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[SOLVED]Fibaro wall plug burn 5pcs


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Question

Hello,

Yesterday come back from a business trip, and on the road i try to turn on AC, open some devices in my home but they was unavailable on Fibaro iOS app.

When enter in home i feel a burn smell. I check all devices and found 5 of them are burn.

Just for curios i unscrew one of them and take a look what's inside. They just burn. 

 

No extra load, no lighting was a sunny day, all other devices from home are working, all other fibaro realy, dimmers, binary sensor are ok, only this 5 pcs fault.

Some was on first floor, other on second floor, and other in basement.

Each floor has separate Lines, i have 3 Line and i put each floor on separate line.

 

What to do? I don't keept paper for all, only for last 3 pcs that i've buy last week.

Any ideea what cause that?

 

 

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Edited by Mediacut
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Woah! This doesn't look very safe ... could possible cause a fire hazard if inflammable objects around it. 

From which vendor you bought yours? At least to know if mine are from the same place and to expect the same behavior in one day... 

One could be a bad luck ... but five of them .... sounds like a serious product flaw .

 

I remember reading on this forum that this particular devices were officially banned in Sweden just because of this reason. Multiple reports of melted / burned devices and when tested by the public safety authority they've found not being compliance with some safety regulations.  

Edited by smprofx
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18 minutes ago, smprofx said:

One could be a bad luck ... but five of them .... sounds like a serious product flaw

Or more likely a power surge

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  • 4 minutes ago, smprofx said:

    Woah! This doesn't look very safe ... could possible cause a fire hazard if inflammable objects around it. 

    From which vendor you bought yours? At least to know if mine are from the same place and to expect the same behavior in one day... 

    One could be a bad luck ... but five of them .... sounds like a serious product flaw .

     

    I remember reading on this forum that this particular devices were officially banned in Sweden just because of this reason. Multiple reports of melted / burned devices and when tested by the public safety authority they've found not being compliance with some safety regulations.  

     

    Hello,

    I have 9 pcs installed, all connected to same power line in the same, this 4 are ok, only 5 burn but I don't know why.

    What cause this problem? Not extra load, they run on maxim 1500-2000w.

     

    For example my server has 180w, AC 900w, dishwasher 1300w, dryer 1500w, fridge 130w,

    this was devices that has Fibaro module burn.

    Other device like electric heaters that has 2000w has no problem, he was connected to same home

     

    Indeed may be a fire risk.

     

    Was buy from different sellers, all Fibaro dealers. Last 3 was from Orange, this 3 burn. Other 2 was buy from online shops, but has stiker whit orange. 

     

    They have a label whit 'market to sell: Romania' maybe low quality device from Fibaro are sell to us, not know!

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    2 minutes ago, Jamie mccrostie said:

    Or more likely a power surge

    Hmm was not a power surge,  all other devices work. If was a power surge all devices burn, but some of them are working. I have in my home almost 20 Fibaro relays, all work great.

     

    My house has a power power stabilization whit surge protection. In case network is bigger then 230v cut power, same if network is low. So surge is excused.

     

    I open all now, 3 has this parts burn, other 2 are clear, nothing burn, noting, but they not work anymore.

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    It seams that I'm in the same boat as you ... mine are also from Orange and marked the same and I have like 15 pieces ...

     

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  • 8 minutes ago, Jamie mccrostie said:

    @Mediacut Were the devices that failed all on the same MCB?

     

    Hello,

    Not same,

    All devices have own MCB. 

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    great, the overcurrent protection is working as expected, exactly this part should break on overcurrent

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  • 1 minute ago, tinman said:

    great, the overcurrent protection is working as expected, exactly this part should break on overcurrent

    Hmm, why some burn and other not? They are on same line, overcurrent is not the same? Why some burn and other not burn?

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    And why do they burn so "ugly"? Shouldn't be a more elegant solution with a fuse? A melting device as a protection system doesn't give a safe impression ... . 

    Perhaps the internal circuit is too sensitive to small current spikes?

    Edited by smprofx
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    2 minutes ago, Mediacut said:

    Hmm, why some burn and other not? They are on same line, overcurrent is not the same? Why some burn and other not burn?

    Once one fails fault currents can do some crasy things miss some devices kill others.

    Did it trip the MCBs?

    I have seen a bad main Neutral in the street do somthing similar, voltage drops away current goes up, some devices unharmed others failed

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  • In my case 3 burn, 2 not burn. Internal circuits are different on them. I'll make picture later.

     

    1 minute ago, Jamie mccrostie said:

    Once one fails fault currents can do some crasy things miss some devices kill others.

    Did it trip the MCBs?

    I have seen a bad main Neutral in the street do somthing similar, voltage drops away current goes up, some devices unharmed others failed

     

    No, MCB was not tripped.

    about overcurrent, in the past I have some bad experiences, someone from electricity company make a mistake on our neighborhood and many hoses was affected. After that I buy a  power stabilization. 

    So in my case overcurrent is excluded!

     

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    1 minute ago, Mediacut said:

    In my case 3 burn, 2 not burn. Internal circuits are different on them. I'll make picture later.

     

     

    No, MCB was not tripped.

    about overcurrent, in the past I have some bad experiences, someone from electricity company make a mistake on our neighborhood and many hoses was affected. After that I buy a  power stabilization. 

    So in my case overcurrent is excluded!

     

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    That one serious piece of kit

    So that cancels out incoming power problems 

    I can see you have a three phase supply were the devices that failed on the same phase?

     

     

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  • Just now, Jamie mccrostie said:

     

    That one serious piece of kit

    So that cancels out incoming power problems 

    I can see you have a three phase supply were the devices that failed on the same phase?

     

     

    Some was on a phase some on other phase.

    To be onest, I'm affiliated, I have in my home many Fibaro devices mounted on back of switches, some of them are mounted in wood wall.

     

    What happen if one of this burn....that should work...as some members say, and burn inside a wood wall? 

     

     

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    2 minutes ago, Mediacut said:

    Some was on a phase some on other phase.

    To be onest, I'm affiliated, I have in my home many Fibaro devices mounted on back of switches, some of them are mounted in wood wall.

     

    What happen if one of this burn....that should work...as some members say, and burn inside a wood wall? 

     

     

    Trying to tie somthing together why they would fail at the same time on different circuits and  on different phases a bit odd

    Do all the appliances still work?

     

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    when MOV got burned out, then there was a reason (i have no crystal ball, so don't ask me why), and definitely not design problem nor cheap components. That MOV is from Littlefuse, P7V275

     

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  • 1 minute ago, Jamie mccrostie said:

    Trying to tie somthing together why they would fail at the same time on different circuits and  on different phases a bit odd

    Do all the appliances still work?

     

    First time I suppose that was overcurrent problem. I check power stabilization in garage, was green, that's mean no faulty in last 24 hours.

     

    After that I check all devices from home, all work perfectly.

     

    On my iMac, Fibaro wallplug was connected to an ups APC, so in case of overcurrent first device that cancel source was garage stabilization, after that ups, and last Fibaro. 

    Strange thing is that all was ok, only last device fault.

    5 minutes ago, tinman said:

    when MOV got burned out, then there was a reason (i have no crystal ball, so don't ask me why), and definitely not design problem nor cheap components. That MOV is from Littlefuse, P7V275

     

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    I understant, but why power stabilization was not in fault, why ups where I plug this wall plug was working? 

     

    Why oher 2 wall plug has no burned parts inside?

     

    This is strange.

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    So this wall plugs got burned after two layers of safety equipment ...

     

    Perhaps some wall plugs are from a different production lot and things were improved between production batches. Maybe there are some visible marks to show the production date or lot somewhere on these wall plugs. 

     

    Try to search the forum for the Sweden case, I'm sure there must be something in common.  Who knows .. perhaps the banned products from Sweden that could not be sold were relocated in another country market like Romania ...

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  • 4 minutes ago, smprofx said:

    So this wall plugs got burned after two layers of safety equipment ...

     

    Perhaps some wall plugs are from a different production lot and things were improved between production batches. Maybe there are some visible marks to show the production date or lot somewhere on these wall plugs. 

     

    Try to search the forum for the Sweden case, I'm sure there must be something in common.  Who knows .. perhaps the banned products from Sweden that could not be sold were relocated in another country market like Romania ...

     

    I bet that's reason, they send many rejected products to our country as new device.

    Now what to do?

    How to check lot?

    I have other 4. I have in children room 2 of them. 

     

    I will mail to Fibaro.

    Edited by Mediacut
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    26 minutes ago, smprofx said:

    Perhaps some wall plugs are from a different production lot and things were improved between production batches. Maybe there are some visible marks to show the production date or lot somewhere on these wall plugs. 

     

    Try to search the forum for the Sweden case, I'm sure there must be something in common.  Who knows .. perhaps the banned products from Sweden that could not be sold were relocated in another country market like Romania ...

     

    the Sweden (and only due to extra req. in Sweden) affected part was early FGWPF-101, after that they got improved (FGWPF-101 got some extra clearance protection). What you have is FGWPF-102, which is approved in Sweden, and exactly that part what Sweden requested got f* up in your house. So no, you didn't got any relocated product.

     

    21 minutes ago, Mediacut said:

     

    I bet that's reason, they send many rejected products to our country as new device.

     

    do you really think that any serious manufacturer would send broken products and risk bad press? 

     

    Quote

    Now what to do?

     

    call your electrician and let check your installation

     

    Quote

    I have other 4. I have in children room 2 of them. 

     

    no issue on that, the part what have to protect your house and children did exactly what it have to do! It have to burn out, to protect bigger and dangerous damage.

     

    Quote

    I will mail to Fibaro.

     

    sure, always good idea

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    1 hour ago, tinman said:

    when MOV got burned out, then there was a reason (i have no crystal ball, so don't ask me why), and definitely not design problem nor cheap components. That MOV is from Littlefuse, P7V275

     

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    @tinman it's difficult see on that photo what failed first because of all that soot and because - just like you - I have no crystal ball. I am going to make a very educated guess. It looks like a fusible resistor was destroyed, indicating that the PCB suffered a massive short circuit. As you say, the component most likely to cause that in my opinion is the red disc, also known as MOV (metal oxide varistor. They come in different colours, often blue). Unless struck by lightning, which may destroy the MOV destructively, the failure mode of that device is is a dead short. MOV handles spikes (see MOV datasheet) to protect electronic devices from going into avalanche mode, which is usually means "the end" of the electronic component. But depending on the energy in a spike and the number of spikes, the device becomes more and more leaky. If it reaches a certain point, the device heats up and unfortunately it has a negative temperature coefficient. This means it will leak even more and heat up even more. When it is hot enough, the internal structure disappears and it forms a dead short.

     

    @Mediacut Would it be possible to measure the resistance of the red disc? If it is indeed in the ohms range, then the MOV failed due to over-voltage or stress. I know, you keep saying that you are protected agains that but the MOV may have had to handle surges before, or you still have surges. I agree, you have other devices that contain similar MOVs and they did not fail at the same time. The definition of a surge is this: "A voltage at least twice the normal system voltage with a duration less than a few milliseconds". You need special measurement equipment to detect this... You can't use a voltmeter, nor can you use an oscilloscope, so I think that rules out everything available to the electronics enthusiast. 

     

    I am not defending the manufacturer here, and I am not claiming to be an authority on surge protection. But I do know the basics and I still browse through "Protection Of Electronic Circuits From Overvoltages" by Ronald B. Standler. It's from 1989 but apart from better measurement technologies, everything is still valid (it mentions MOV, TVS, ferro resonant transformers, ...)

     

    EDIT: I do not claim that I know what happened, I do not dismiss any alternative theory. Someone has to test that hypothesis, by examining the dead modules!

     

    EDIT2: it must be a frightful experience. Although I'm an electronics guy, and I have melted some plastic over the years * cough *, I do not like the smell...

    Edited by petergebruers
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