Lucky module 2.5kw

[MDC 78]

Hello,

After episode whit 5 Wall plug burn (changed on warranty, power supply of module die), now i have a new episode.

Tonight when i come home i login on fibaro web page....and i have a big "X", i bet all know what x mean on a module....communication problem....or dead module....in my case was dead..

Why? i don't know, i have almost 30 modules in all my home....only one die....and was buy exactly 1 month ago.

 

I unscrew switch and module, an i heard only a small buzz inside.

Of corse i open module to see what's inside, but is perfect, no damage, no nothing.

 

Anyone has same issue?

 

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[AutoFrank 372]

@Mediacut

 

Hi, is it on the edge of your network 

Did you try and wake the dead device and see how long it stays connected? 

[MDC 78]

1 minute ago, AutoFrank said:

@Mediacut

 

Hi, is it on the edge of your network 

Did you try and wake the dead device and see how long it stays connected? 

 

Hi Frank,

Module is defect, not working anymore, make a strange sound, like a buzz when powered. About range this is in the middle of z-wave network. In same place I have other 2 modules connected from same wire, them work.

[AutoFrank 372]

@Mediacut

Looks like a faulty one alright ....

[MDC 78]

7 minutes ago, AutoFrank said:

@Mediacut

Looks like a faulty one alright ....

 

In last month i had 5 wall plug fault.....and now this module...

I plan to put fibaro in a big building, and start asking if is a good thing. 

 

Did anyone has faulty module without do nothing? 

 

[Momos 103]

With all due respect, you must be one of the most unlucky fibaro buyers around.  I have tons of devices and yes, i burned some during the course of years but it was of my own doing.

 

 

 

[kunoch 27]

Is there any new or big power consumer nearby or are you located at the very end of a power line?

Could be that there is another 'big device' creating spikes on the power line, have there been any thunderstorms with lightning recently?

If this happens very often to you, it might make sense to monitor the incoming power to the house as spikes could be the reason for burned power supplies. The devices are just too small to have big transzorbs, so a spike can get thru and kill the on board power supply.

I am only guessing.....

big device = a crane on a construction site nearby (they are usually horribly filtered on the AC side), a heating system of a public swimming pool, also a big AC system, any newly opened big building nearby?

As it would be very hard to proove that someone is generating spikes doing all the harm to your devices, it might make sense to install a good filter in your power line infeed to the house. Would need to be something like the Roxburgh KMF3100 or Schaffner FN356-36-24 or similar. Maybe your local electrician knows best and has experience with devices he is installing.

Edited August 24, 2017 by kunoch

[petergebruers 1,268]

The buzzing sound might be normal. Sound is difficult to describe, but I may have a solution!

 

At the end I attach an mp3 file. That is what my FGRM222 sounds like, when you hold it to your ear. That module's sound is typical for its generation. I am not sure about more recent modules, but the supply is the same design with different components. When mounted in the wall, you cannot hear it, it is very faint. But on a desk or against your hear they certainly produce audible noise.

 

As I said in your previous post, I bet you have an electrical problem. Maybe: a floating neutral. Maybe: spikes caused by switching of large transformers or motors (pumps?). I know your electrician disagrees, but this is too much of a coincidence.

 

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The first part of the audio is a bit of "ABBA" music, so you can set a reference volume. The sound level of the music should be as high as you would normally select for listening to music for an extended period of time (so not too low, but not very loud either). After that you hear a buzzing and hissing sound, recorded at 3 cm from the module. It is the a typical sound (some say noise) produced by this type of power supply (hysteretic switched mode power supply)... Your module may sound differently, because noise from mains supply gets mixed in.

 

Does your module sound like mine?

 

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Edited August 24, 2017 by petergebruers

[MDC 78]

4 hours ago, kunoch said:

Is there any new or big power consumer nearby or are you located at the very end of a power line?

Could be that there is another 'big device' creating spikes on the power line, have there been any thunderstorms with lightning recently?

If this happens very often to you, it might make sense to monitor the incoming power to the house as spikes could be the reason for burned power supplies. The devices are just too small to have big transzorbs, so a spike can get thru and kill the on board power supply.

I am only guessing.....

big device = a crane on a construction site nearby (they are usually horribly filtered on the AC side), a heating system of a public swimming pool, also a big AC system, any newly opened big building nearby?

As it would be very hard to proove that someone is generating spikes doing all the harm to your devices, it might make sense to install a good filter in your power line infeed to the house. Would need to be something like the Roxburgh KMF3100 or Schaffner FN356-36-24 or similar. Maybe your local electrician knows best and has experience with devices he is installing.

 

@kunoch

 

My home is in residential area, we don't have any big power consumer around, only houses, and i'm in middle of them, not at end of line.

Weather si nice, is 35-36 outside and sunny, not raining since last month, we was in red code of heat

 

Strange thing is i have many fibro modules installed and all is ok, only one was unlucky and die.

I live in this house since 2016 when i build and i don't have any issue whit other devices. I never report power issue and electronics defect.

I will install a filter but i don't think this is solution. Why only one from 30 modules.

 

Module is under warranty, hope they will change, but we do after if something happen?

 

I plan to add fibaro to my new building around 70-80 modules and i start to ask myself if will be a good solution to do this. Indeed this was reason why i install fibaro in my home, for test.

 

3 hours ago, petergebruers said:

The buzzing sound might be normal. Sound is difficult to describe, but I may have a solution!

 

At the end I attach an mp3 file. That is what my FGRM222 sounds like, when you hold it to your ear. That module's sound is typical for its generation. I am not sure about more recent modules, but the supply is the same design with different components. When mounted in the wall, you cannot hear it, it is very faint. But on a desk or against your hear they certainly produce audible noise.

 

As I said in your previous post, I bet you have an electrical problem. Maybe: a floating neutral. Maybe: spikes caused by switching of large transformers or motors (pumps?). I know your electrician disagrees, but this is too much of a coincidence.

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

The first part of the audio is a bit of "ABBA" music, so you can set a reference volume. The sound level of the music should be as high as you would normally select for listening to music for an extended period of time (so not too low, but not very loud either). After that you hear a buzzing and hissing sound, recorded at 3 cm from the module. It is the a typical sound (some say noise) produced by this type of power supply (hysteretic switched mode power supply)... Your module may sound differently, because noise from mains supply gets mixed in.

 

Does your module sound like mine?

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Hello,

I send already module to seller an i don't record him, i open forum later. The sound was louder, it's look like buzzer effect, but louder.

About electrical problem, from 2006 when hose was made i don't have any problem whit any electronic device from home, and belive me i have some

 

I will wait, and if any module die in this way i will investigate the whole hose electric system.

About my 5 pcs wall plug, 3 burn inside and 2 was untouched, like this module. Just die, nothing burn, no mark of nothing.

 

Strange things is that near this module, in same wall switch case was another 2 pcs of  double module, connected from same wire, and they are working perfect, and i think one is my first module.

After that i check all modules from home, all respond perfect.

 

In final, i hope this module was defect since has only 1 month after i put online, i will wait, if other die indeed is my electric problem, but i doubt.

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

1 hour ago, Mediacut said:

The sound was louder, it's look like buzzer effect, but louder.

 

That would not surprise me. I think it depends on some harmonics present on your supply and the exact type of module. It can change throughout the day! Sometimes it is more "buzzing". sometimes more "sizzling". It is not a defect. I think my "ABBA" trick is still not good enough to get accurate results, and I'll see if I can record the sound when it is more buzzing.

 

I think your problems might have an exotic cause... indirect lightning strike. It is rare, but I have seen a few cases! I started my hobby in the eighties. To earn some money, I repaired TV and audio/hifi. In total, I repaired about 5 TV sets that had clear signs of indirect lightning strike.

 

What is so special about that? You would think, lightning destroys everything and stuff explodes. That is NOT the case!

 

It DEFIES ALL LOGIC. I have repaired TVs that had burn marks on the circuit board and evaporated copper traces and a blown fuse. Wire up the traces, replace the fuse and ... repaired! No further damage! On the other hand, I still remember it after all those years, a TV that looked very clean, no burn marks, no sparking, but no sound and only "a snowy picture". I thought I could repair that with one hand in my pocket. Power supply and antenna filter intact, that is how the current gets in. O boy! Wrong! I had to replace 50% of that TV. Vertical deflection IC dead, sound amplfier partially dead, IF module dead, even IR remote control and main processor dead or partially functional. But the power  supply worked and kept working. That was about the only undamaged part of that TV!

 

Did your neighbors report anything broken? It often enters via data lines, cable distribution or power lines.

 

[MDC 78]

21 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

 

That would not surprise me. I think it depends on some harmonics present on your supply and the exact type of module. It can change throughout the day! Sometimes it is more "buzzing". sometimes more "sizzling". It is not a defect. I think my "ABBA" trick is still not good enough to get accurate results, and I'll see if I can record the sound when it is more buzzing.

 

I think your problems might have an exotic cause... indirect lightning strike. It is rare, but I have seen a few cases! I started my hobby in the eighties. To earn some money, I repaired TV and audio/hifi. In total, I repaired about 5 TV sets that had clear signs of indirect lightning strike.

 

What is so special about that? You would think, lightning destroys everything and stuff explodes. That is NOT the case!

 

It DEFIES ALL LOGIC. I have repaired TVs that had burn marks on the circuit board and evaporated copper traces and a blown fuse. Wire up the traces, replace the fuse and ... repaired! No further damage! On the other hand, I still remember it after all those years, a TV that looked very clean, no burn marks, no sparking, but no sound and only "a snowy picture". I thought I could repair that with one hand in my pocket. Power supply and antenna filter intact, that is how the current gets in. O boy! Wrong! I had to replace 50% of that TV. Vertical deflection IC dead, sound amplfier partially dead, IF module dead, even IR remote control and main processor dead or partially functional. But the power  supply worked and kept working. That was about the only undamaged part of that TV!

 

Did your neighbors report anything broken? It often enters via data lines, cable distribution or power lines.

 

 

Hello,

Thank for sharing this story.

I just spoke whit my neighbor and he not report anything.

Indeed is strange, anyway i just want to find if someone has same issue whit any module that stop responding. I will wait, if other die....is my problem.

[petergebruers 1,268]

4 minutes ago, Mediacut said:

 

Hello,

Thank for sharing this story.

I just spoke whit my neighbor and he not report anything.

Indeed is strange, anyway i just want to find if someone has same issue whit any module that stop responding. I will wait, if other die....is my problem.

 

The fact that not all modules died at the same time, triggered my memory and brought up that TV story.

Devices dying after the event is consistent with that. Not all components die immediately because off overstress. Some get more leaky, heat up more and die days or weeks after the event. This might indeed surprise you... you think "nothing special happened yesterday" when it broke, and that is true, the damage was done days or weeks ago...

[kunoch 27]

@Mediacut, as @petergebruersstates, this is unfortunately too true. We call it here ESD-maggot. They start somewhere in the silicone and eat there way trhu until the device fails. How log this takes no one knows. like termites, invisible until total failure. Could be the reason. Such devices are usually very interesting for the manufacturer and the designer to investigate and take it as a basis for design improvement or at least a verfication to see the protection basically worked, but only this phenomenon made its way thru into the silicone. Not even power line filters might help.

[AutoFrank 372]

Interesting, I had a popp dual relay stop working on me but I just assumed it died like electronics sometimes do...

I must open up and see if I can spot something amiss