Master/slave documentation of Fibaro devices

[Henrik 24]

Hello everyone!

 

I've been using Fibaro for some time now and I have to admit that I still do not understand the Z Wave master-slave concept.

 

I understand that every device has a master which in its turn "talk to" its slave device(s), but where do I find documentation of have many slaves there's suppose to be for different Fibaro devices and what they do? I've tried to find this information in the manuals (manuals.fibaro.com), but can't seam to find it.

 

This is what the devices looks like in the GUI of the Fibaro HCL:

 

Fibaro Dimmer 1 (FGD-211)
 - Master
 - Slave
 
Fibaro Dimmer 2 (FGD-212)
 - Master
 - Slave
 - Slave
 - Slave

 

Fibaro Single Relay Switch (FGS-211)
 - Master
 - Slave
 - Slave
 - Slave
 
Fibaro Double Relay Switch (FGS-221)
 - Master
 - Slave
 - Slave
 - Slave
 
Fibaro RGBW Controller (FGRGBWM) (set up as input/output)
 - Master
 - Slave
 - Slave
 - Slave
 - Slave
 - Slave
 - Slave

 

What does all these slave devices relate to? Would be very glad to know. Where can I find this information?

 

[fel-x 4]

I have the exact same issue : there are more slaves than I expect. 

I always use the slave(s) that can actually trigger something through the interface, but I keep wondering the following : could we make any usage of the extra slaves ?? I would be happy to find their purpose and use it if possible.

Or are they just totally useless ? (then why do they show at all?)

 

thanks a lot

 

[jakub.jezek 353]

Master stands for whole device.

Slave is what you actually control via any interface or give you any information (channels).

[Henrik 24]

Thank you for your reply @jakub.jezek

 

But I still wonder, where can I find any documentation of which slaves to expect for each Fibaro device when added in Home Center?

 

As an example, my RGBW is configured as input/output so I would expect four slaves, but there are six slaves. What are these two extras?

 

In the single relay switch I can understand two slaves, one for S1 and one for S2, but what is the extra slave?

 

I would like to find some documentation of this. E.g. "If you add a single relay switch you will get one master and three slaves, where the first... and the second... and the third...".

[jakub.jezek 353]

Hi @Henrik,

 

I do not thing there is anything regarding that.

 

There is only Master/Slave principle in association in Fibaro Knowledge base:

Please login or register to see this link.

 

Regarding RGBWs: slaves -> channels + RGBW + RGB i believe. But RGB and RGBW are turned off if RGBW is in Output/Input mode.

 

@I.Srodka, can team responsible for documentation or knowledge base create a little article regarding Master and Slave (shown in general settings of devices). I think that article would be very useful.

[Henrik 24]

Thanks again @jakub.jezek 

[I.Srodka 4]

27 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

@I.Srodka, can team responsible for documentation or knowledge base create a little article regarding Master and Slave (shown in general settings of devices). I think that article would be very useful.

 

Of course I can present this idea to our Documentation Team, as we constantly develop our self-learning resources. 

 

You can always find full documentation here: 

Please login or register to see this link.

Edited September 22, 2017 by I.Srodka

[Henrik 24]

Thanks @I.Srodka

 

However, if I open the manual for Dimmer 2 (as an example) 

Please login or register to see this link.

 and search for "slave", I get 0 results.

[jakub.jezek 353]

1 minute ago, I.Srodka said:

You can always find full documentation here: 

Please login or register to see this link.

Yes, full docs of Fibaro products, but not why e.g. Switch 2 has 3 slaves device (channel 0 and channel 1 for S1 and channel 2 for S2).

[I.Srodka 4]

@jakub.jezek,

 

Yes, I'm aware that more articles in Knowledge Base would be helpful. I submitted the idea about this article.

 

As far as Switch 2 is considered, 1 slave device is only virtual and accessible via web interface.

[tommyjo 0]

@I.Srodka Because of this Master/Slave challenge, I decided to factory reset my HC2 and rebuild my z-wave network from scratch. (60+ devices)

I'm starting with a Fibaro double relay 2.

It adds as follow:

Master - The device itself

Slave - SW1 (this does not report energy consumption)

Slave - A Remote

Slave - SW1 (This report power usage so I choose to use this)

Slave - SW2

 

Would it be too much to ask to consider adding a device tree for each of your products in your manuals with an explanation of what each one is?

I usually disable those slave devices I do not use.

 

 

Please login or register to see this image.

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Why is there a virtual SW 1 and what is it for? 

I guess it is the first one?

[storskogen 8]

I also have the same question, what are all the devices?

[Dannyboy 12]

Me too. The Master/Salve concept is not clear and easy to understand.

[RH_Dreambox 182]

And I who thought I was stupid didn't understand what everyone else understood. Now I know I'm not alone in that ?
This is a very good question.

[petergebruers 1,265]

8 hours ago, fel-x said:

I have the exact same issue : there are more slaves than I expect. 

 

7 hours ago, RH_Dreambox said:

And I who thought I was stupid didn't understand what everyone else understood. Now I know I'm not alone in that ?
This is a very good question.

 

Yeah there is no way of understanding this unless someone tells you about the "backwards compatibility" of Z-Wave devices... And the fact that many modules have a "Remote" which is a Fibaro concept.

 

Very likely, some slaves will simply act as duplicates because that is really what they are... Duplicates... It is mandated by the Z-Wave specification.

 

Long time ago concept of "multiple identical functions" did not exist... It was impossible to make "double relays" because there was no concept of 2 or more identical functions. Later, the engineers added a way to make such devices but they could not break backwards compatibility. In Z-Wave we call devices "Single" instance or "Multi" instance and on the association screen you'll see a "S" and "M" column and it is related this concept. If you have ever toyed with direct associations you may have noticed, depending on the device, you can always control the first relay of "the other device", but you cannot always control the second relay.

 

So how many slaves can you expect? One slave per function, plus one extra (per function) for backwards compatibility. BTW HCx sets one of the duplicates to "hidden" to reduce the amount of confusion.

 

8 hours ago, fel-x said:

Or are they just totally useless ? (then why do they show at all?)

On the HCx they are "useless" in this sense: the duplicates have identical functions.

 

There is a subtle difference between "single" and "multi" instances as you might expect, because the "multi" instance needs to know which relay you want to control, the data packet to control the second relay of a double relay inevitably has to contain more data (than a single relay) to add the instance number. If you are interested, I can tell you more about this, but it is rather low level tech stuff.

 

They show up because the Z-Wave engine "sees" the device as one single instance device (for backwards compatibility) and a multi instance device, and that one encapsulates two identical on/off relays.

 

Controllers asks the device "what are you" and it answers "I am a relay and I am multi-instance and then I am also a double relay" - this results in 3 "slaves".

 

The "Remote" slave appeared on some 4.X fw update and as far as I can tell it represents "scene activation" or "central scene" support, so if a devices supports this type of command it will have one of those black remote slave objects.

Edited April 7, 2020 by petergebruers

[RH_Dreambox 182]

@petergebruers

You are a bright light in the dark!?

[alex88 71]

@petergebruers

Damn, I've been wanting to know this topic for a very long time. I thought it had been asked on the forum already and answered... ie everything understood it.

 

Begs the question, why do we need to see the Fibaro Remote device at all and to that end, why not just hide all the slave devices we don't need to see??

 

Also, I'm not sure if I have setup my associations correctly, but I always use "S" only.  Perhaps I didn't fully understand what you wrote, so can you please explain when I would want to select "M" for an association over an "S"?

 

 

[A.Socha 126]

2 minuty temu, amilanov napisał:

Begs the question, why do we need to see the Fibaro Remote device at all and to that end, why not just hide all the slave devices we don't need to see??

If you dont use central scene you can hide them, it's visible to know what device use in block scene or in LUA for central scene, in z-wave central scene for all endpoint is on root device who is mostly hiden

[alex88 71]

@A.Socha

I am questioning if the current solution is the best solution.

 

Why pick one piece of functionality, scene activation, and create a new device just for this functionality?

 

I don't understand why scene activation is so important that it needs a separate device that I don't even access. It just seems to clog up my interface with "remotes" that I don't use in any of my LUA code or anywhere else.

 

Have I misunderstood something? 

[A.Socha 126]

In scenes to use central scene you must chose device, if you chose wrong it will not work, so we created dedicate virtual device only for that function, so if you don't use central scene you can hide them but if on any you use leave it for scenes

[alex88 71]

Ok, Thanks!

I don't use central scenes, I'm still using the old method. That's probably why I haven't come across this, however it's good to know for the future.