[SOLVED]LEARNING MODE error

[ReMi ProduXions 0]

Since today my HC2 gives a LEARNING MODE error. I've tried to reboot the device, but no luck whatsoever.

After a while I've tried to update to the BETA version, no luck. Even after downgrading to 4.140 again no luck.

I've even tried to force remove a device in the hope that it would "magically" start working again.

The strange thing is: The REMOVE DEVICE function is still working

 

Anyone any ideas?

 

With kind regards,

 

René van Meulenbroek

[Greenlightmalta 0]

Good Evening,

 

Did you fix this by any chance?  I have the same problem

 

Regards

Jurgen

[ReMi ProduXions 0]

Nop

[petergebruers 1,268]

Any controller can exclude any device at any time. So, if you were unable to "exclude" that would really worry me. But you still can exclude so nothing too weird is happening.

 

But inclusion is a different story.

 

Did you toy with "secondary controller"?

 

Even if you did try to add a secondary controller, the HC might think it is no longer a "primary". Everything will work, except inclusion.

 

A user cannot fix that, but a remote intervention by [email protected] is possible and takes a minute...

 

You could try a "restore" but you'll probably have changed some stuff since the problem appeared, so I would contact support before you do that.

[ReMi ProduXions 0]

Hi Peter,

I did not change anything, I only updated the gateway from 3.560 to 4.150.

After that the system would only exclude one device before giving a LEARNING MODE error.

A reboor was needed to be able to exclude another device, no inclusion possible (system hung on every try).

 

With kind regards,

 

René van Meulenbroek

ReMi ProduXions

[petergebruers 1,268]

Thanks for reporting back...

 

1 minute ago, ReMi ProduXions said:

I did not change anything, I only updated the gateway from 3.560 to 4.150.

 

That's a big jump... Have you ever seen a 4.X (before the upgrade)? I cannot remember what 3.X looked like! Soooooooo many changes. Master Slave. Remotes. Brrrrr...

 

3 minutes ago, ReMi ProduXions said:

After that the system would only exclude one device before giving a LEARNING MODE error.

 

OK that qualifies as what I said in my previous post: 'So, if you were unable to "exclude" that would really worry me.'

 

What did support have to say?

 

[alandee 79]

Yeah so after updating to the new beta I too have a learning mode error .. Can't add anything  .. will try restore.

yikes ! first time i've had an issue in a long time !

 

Cheers,

al.

 

 

 

Yeah so restore didn't work either .. the simplest of things can be a challenge sometimes.

Time to either rant and rave ... or get support involved.

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

6 hours ago, alandee said:

Yeah so after updating to the new beta I too have a learning mode error .. Can't add anything  .. will try restore.

 

Maybe a bit late, but before you restore... Inclusion has been "temperamental" lately, but it also depends on the device. My last device was a Z-Wave.me WALL_C-S and it took several attempts. It also depends on network load. Some devices use 1-click, other 3-Click or something else...

 

I there is "some weirdness" in recent HC frmware versions, but I'm always able to included a device.

 

I recently posted this in another topic (about 4.153):

 

"I am not sure I can help but I can share my experience... I did not include/exclude a lot while on 4.150. I probably did exclude/include a Z-Uno (remove, change code and channels, add it back). I'm so used to having trouble when I exclude and include - I sort of ignore all weird stuff. Now I'm running 4.153 beta and this weekend I excluded and included my Z-Uno again. One of the weird things: sometimes delete did not show the countdown screen, sometimes it did. To be honest, when I tried a certain Z-Uno configuration on my other controller, Z-Way, I noticed it included but the channel definitions where "unexpected". I was unable to include that particular version on my HC! I cannot explain why a device would include on Z-Way, but not on HC, but maybe the Z-Uno had some weird setup so I cannot blame the HC. When I simplified my setup, it would work on both controllers. Anyway, when I was trying, I noticed several times  there was no "countdown screen", but the status window said something like "finished" after 30 sec. Add and Delete buttons were not functional at times. Then I reboot, try again, and suddenly everything works without a single issue. I usually do not report this kind of problems because it might be specific to my network, my controller, my scripts, my Z-Uno... anyway, It did not crash my HC  but crashes have happened to me, running on older firmware versions. Either a full crash, or Z-Wave unresponsive... BTW I am under the impression, include fails (more) immediately after a reboot... I have not yet tried to find out if the effect is real or my imagination."

 

Can you please check exclusion too? If you cannot exclude a device, any device, reboot and it should work. You can try a device that has not been included or reset, the controller should stop conting down and should say "deleted"...

 

If exclusion does not work... you either have a big(ger) problem or 4.153 or 4.154 have issues with exclsution too. This would be now to me. I'll see if I can do some tests today.

[alandee 79]

Hi @petergebruers thanks for your input, it is always inciteful .. so some further developments, currently on 4.154 .. I can exclude and include an aeotec sensor, so that's a good start.

I will try an aeotec microswitch later today, as I find them to be a finicky. I'll also do a door sensor that for some reason refuses to accept it has a new battery

These are the things I can live without, just in case I can't re-add them !

 

It was a switch yesterday, and the aeotec sensor outside, so reboots, and cursing may have helped ..

 

Cheers,

al.

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

10 hours ago, alandee said:

It was a switch yesterday, and the aeotec sensor outside, so reboots, and cursing may have helped

 

Thank you for reporting back... I understand, the cursing seems optional to me, but I sometimes get that too, it comes as a free bonus 

 

I did these tests.

 

1) Old round multisensor. Used device, but properly excluded last time

• This devices uses 1 x click for inclusion/exclusion.
• Exclude device TEN times without issues. Set the controller to "delete", timer countdown, click button, timer stops, status "deleted"

 

So, that worked as expected!

 

2) Newest Fibaro Door Window Sensor (aka version 2). Spare, straight out of the box.

• This devices uses 3 x click for inclusion.
• Exclude device TEN times without issues. Set the controller to "delete", timer countdown, 3 x click button, timer stops, status "deleted"

 

3) Same multisensor... inclusion... No issues.

4) Same D/W sensor... Inclusion... No issues.

5) Same multisensor... Exclusion... No issues.

6) Same D/W sensor... Exclusion... No issues.

 

This is what I said before: exclusion should work, always, any device, any controller... But please read on, I am able to make exclude "misbehave" if the process of *inclusion* fails. Or in this case: I'll make it fail.

 

If you cannot exclude a device, something is really wrong. For instance, you bought a module from a seller on a different continent, and it uses a different frequency. Or the device is completely broken.

 

So now let us try to get some "weirdness" by "not doing it by the book".

 

7) Same multisensor... Inclusion but do not wake up device... So I'll try to make inclusion fail

• Device added... But "add screen" stays on top of the BUI. As expected.
• Close "add screen".
• Device exists, but unconfiguerd, as expected.

 

Now the weirdness starts!

 

• Exclusion... All kinds of issues, like the "countdown window" not appearing.
• Inclusion of D/W device fails.
• Exclusion fails.
• It try some combinations, timing, clicks, to be honest "I act like a chicken without a head" as we say in Belgium. But I do NOT reboot!
• Every attempt at exclusion or inclusion fails in some manner.
• The "debris" of unconfigured devices accumulates in "unconfigured section"...

 

8) Reboot! This is the first reboot since I started the tests.

 

9) Exclude multisensor: success! Repeat 10 times: success.

10) Exclude D/W sensor: success! Repeat 10 times: success.

 

So I put the devices back in my drawer, I know they have been excluded and haven been factory reset. So I do not risk any duplicate NodeID with these devices. They are safe to use the next time...

 

So what debris is under "unconfigured section"? Only one device, probably the multisensor (I guessed that, because it has more endpoints than the D/W sensor).

 

Because I am sure the devices were properly excluded, see point 9 and 10 I now force delete the "unconfigured" multisensor. It is very important to understand that "force delete" is only safe if you are certain the devices were properly reset and no longer exist on the network.

 

And everything is back to normal!

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by petergebruers

[ReMi ProduXions 0]

I get your point Peter, not arguing with your guidance.

The problem I'm having is that the GW did exclude the device properly, not a single problem.

The device I excluded was a Vitrum 3-way dimmodule, included in a Vera system. The Vera system is no longer wanted by the client and they wanted everything included in the Fibaro system wich was running the screens.

This client wasn't mine from the start, so I couldn't have updated the system any sooner, but the system was still running on 3.560.

 

In order to be able to include the Vitrum modules, the system needed to be above 4.0. I've tested the exclusion and inclusion on my own testsystem which is running on 4.150 and there were no issues at all.

With this in mind I was pretty confidend that this switching of systems would be an easy task.

 

When accessing the system and finding out is was still running on 3.560 I was a bit sceptical that the task would be even possible, knowing that trying to update from 3.560 to 4.xxx has had many different problems in the past such as removing your entire devicelist...

 

Still needing to update I started with the update-proces.

After the update-proces was completed to 4.0x I checked the existing devicelist in order to see if everything was still there, no problems detected.

Then I updated to the last stable version (4.150) and tried to exclude 1 device with the Fibaro GW, because I didn't have the proper login credentials for the Vera.

no propblems so far.

 

After the succesful exclusion I then tried to include the device in the Fibaro GW, and thats when the probles started.

The first time I tried to include, the system stuck on the inclusion-screen. No way this ended properly, not even after 5 minutes.

Force stopped the inclusion process and removed the device using the exclusion-proces. No harm done.

After that I tried to re-include the device, only to find out that after pushing the inclusion button the topscreen said LEARNING MODE error, please try again.

 

Rebooting doesn't seem to help, going to ask the client tomorrow to unplug the GW for at least 1 hour, maybe the system hangs on the z-wave chip trying to rebuild the network.

 

Will keep you informed.

 

With kind regards,

 

René van Meulenbroek

ReMi ProduXions

Edited January 21, 2018 by ReMi ProduXions

[petergebruers 1,268]

Thank you for your elaborate post, and sorry for my late answer. The FGT-001 kept me very busy...

 

On 1/21/2018 at 12:14 PM, ReMi ProduXions said:

This client wasn't mine from the start, so I couldn't have updated the system any sooner, but the system was still running on 3.560.

 

Understood!

 

On 1/21/2018 at 12:14 PM, ReMi ProduXions said:

The device I excluded was a Vitrum 3-way dimmodule, included in a Vera system.

 

Out of curiosity... Which one is it on this page:

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

On 1/21/2018 at 12:14 PM, ReMi ProduXions said:

When accessing the system and finding out is was still running on 3.560 I was a bit sceptical that the task would be even possible, knowing that trying to update from 3.560 to 4.xxx has had many different problems in the past such as removing your entire devicelist...

 

Nice to know... When you first mentioned the upgrade, my first thought was: "Expect the best, prepare for the worst." . But that turned out well!

 

On 1/21/2018 at 12:14 PM, ReMi ProduXions said:

Rebooting doesn't seem to help

 

Quite possible, but I do recommend a reboot each time you see "something that is not quite right". See my previous post.

 

You call it a "gateway" and you do not say how you moved modules from VERA to HC... So I assume you or the customer did not do an exclude of each module on VERA? In that case... you or the customer have toyed with secondary controller (see my first post).

 

If I am right, the customer now cannot include ANY module. The HC thinks another controller is inclusion server, and if it cannot reach that server it'll say "learning mode error" after a few secs. Fibaro support can fix that for you.

 

[alandee 79]

Thanks Peter,

I suspected it was an Aeotec switch, and I tried excluding it and making sure it wasn't attached to my minimote, or any of the other boxes

So then I managed to include a door sensor and exclude it then, worked up the courage to try a Fibaro double switch and exclude it, then added the Aeotec double micro switch, and it was buggered again. So I Restored backup .. and tried again with door window sensor, then Aeotec .. and learning mode error. restore again, and tried Aeotec first, and error .. so finally I tried without adding the Aeotec and everything is running as sweetly as can be. .. needless to say, the Aeotec is now in the land of recycled e-waste and I hope it is enjoying the experience

 

Cheers & thanks again,

al.