Heat controller temperature not displayed

[XanderF 8]

I'm currently using HC2 version 4.144 and installed two heat controller. One with external temp module and one without it. After adding a heat controller I get two images, one of the heat controller itself and one thermometer. There are a couple of weird things:

 

1. The temperature of the heat controller with external temp module is correctly displayed by the thermometer image in the FibaroHome app (iOS), but is always displayed on the HC2 webpage as two dashes "--".

 

2. The thermometer of the heat controller without external temp module always displays two dashes "--". I expect it to display the current temp of the internal thermometer of the heat controller.

 

Anyone else having the same issues?

[I.Srodka 4]

Hi @XanderF!

 

First of all, could you tell if those two heat controllers are in one room or space which could be sharing the readings from that one external temp module?

[XanderF 8]

The heat controllers are in separate rooms. Room A has only the Heat Controller, Room B has the Heat Controller and external temperature module.

 

One thing I need to mention is that the thermometer (external module) did display the current temperature in version 4.140, but didn't do that anymore in 4.144. Might be an update issue. Need I remove it and add it again?

[I.Srodka 4]

@XanderF,

 

Okay, heat controllers are in separate rooms, but will it be a problem to connect to one external sensor, is the temperature and heating should be turn on, more less, in the same time ranges? Is the temperature much different in those two rooms?

 

19 hours ago, XanderF said:

2. The thermometer of the heat controller without external temp module always displays two dashes "--". I expect it to display the current temp of the internal thermometer of the heat controller.

As far as this issue is concerned. The internal thermometer is only for our purpose, for calibration and PID algorithms. This reading won't be any good as it will probably be very elevated.

 

Finally, could you provide what value do you have in parameter 3 for your heat controllers.

 

[peterbazen 0]

Hello XanderF, 

 

I have exactly the same problem. I do not have an external senor. See screenshot below! 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Has anybody a solution for this problem? I'm running the laters 4.151 beta software on my HC2.

 

Would be great to solve this issue. 

Regards Peter

 

 

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

@peterbazenI think Mr @I.Srodka said in his previous post, that temperature is displayed only if you have an external sensor. I can confirm this, I have both setups.

 

So:

 

- If you do not have a sensor, after ten minutes the thermometer should display --

- If you have a sensor, after 10 minutes it should give the temperature at the sensor site.

Edited December 19, 2017 by petergebruers
Reporting interval is 10, not 5 minutes.

[peterbazen 0]

Hi Petergebruers, 

 

Thank you for your answer. I know what to do.....buy a bluetooth sensor otherwise it's not what I want. 

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

1 minute ago, peterbazen said:

Hi Petergebruers, 

 

Thank you for your answer. I know what to do.....buy a bluetooth sensor otherwise it's not what I want. 

 

 

Glad I could help... It is somewhat cheaper to buy FGT-001 + sensor as a pack. Would you like to share with us what you want?

[I.Srodka 4]

On 16.12.2017 at 11:38 AM, petergebruers said:

@peterbazenI think Mr @I.Srodka said in his previous post, that temperature is displayed only if you hav an external sensor. I can confirm this, I have both setups.

Yes, that's what I meant  ; )

[Nayenia 0]

Thanks @petergebruers for pointing me at this thread.

 

I have to say i am a little bit disappointed by your answer@I.Srodka. In the official description of the FGT-001 is stated "an intelligent, radiator thermostatic head, which controls the temperature in the room, using the in-built or extra sensor and regulating the heat level automatically", which is obviously not the whole truth because to really automate your home you will need to buy an additional temp sensor for every room you want to control.

Sure, the internal sensor you use " for calibration and PID algorithms" won't have the rooms' temperature but a slightly higher one as it is close to the heater but why not let customer decide if this value is sufficient to them? Even aa slightly wrong value is better than none!

Is there a chance we will see this value added with an upcoming firmware?

[petergebruers 1,261]

2 minutes ago, Nayenia said:

Even aa slightly wrong value is better than none!

 

I understand your disappointment (but I do not share it)... The device clearly has a built-in sensor, so why not make it available? This question has been asked quite a few times, regarding the Danfoss TRVs. The answer always is: "because it is inaccurate".

 

I am also curious... what you would like to do with the "slightly wrong value"? Is it for monitoring purposes? Or you want to use that value to control something else? This is an honest question, not a rhetorical one... You get temp sensors in door/windows sensors, motion sensors, can't you use any of those? They will be "inaccurate" in a sense too, because of location and height.

 

You know what? I'll set up a test: I already have a temperature sensor in the room, at the correct height near the sofa. That is my reference. I'll add a second one, right on top of the FGT, then monitor it for maybe a few days...  Give me some time to set this up. Let's find out how "inaccurate" it would be, assuming that the added sensor would work like the one in the thermostat.

 

Maybe it can help you decide if it is worth the extra 15 EUR (10 if bought as a bundle, FGT + sensor). Well, not quite, because the main purpose of the extra sensor, as I see it, is "more accurate control". As a side effect, you also get reporting from that sensor.

[Nayenia 0]

Please don't get me wrong here. It is not a matter of spending 10-15 EUR more than i thought i had to.

I am pretty new to home automation, trying to find sensors and actors that suit me and what i think my needs are. I don't even know the Danfoss TRVs or have worked with them.

 

Quote

I am also curious... what you would like to do with the "slightly wrong value"?

Like i said, i am new to home automation. I started with a wall plug and a cord switch and wanted to "see where it leads to". now i already have some lights running which i can also control with my Alexa Echo.

Next topic on my list was heating. So i searched for radiator heads that can be added to a z-wave network and found the fibaro FGT-001 to certainly be a good one to start.

I wanted to be able to send the heater a setpoint and be able to monitor the temperature of the room (e.g. by rules (time, presence, etc.pp)). Maybe i am also missing something here...

For example, i create a rule that says "if it's between 5-11pm and you notice my presence set the temperature in the living room to 22.5°C". The rule fires, the thermostat receives a setpoint at 22.5° and starts heating.

How do i "know" it reached the targetted temp if i have no other sensor?

 

But i don't want to hijack this thread...i understand the official statement. Would have been nice to know that there is a build-in sensor but it can't be used.

 

Regards,

Nayenia

Edited December 19, 2017 by Nayenia

[I.Srodka 4]

Hi @Nayenia!

 

Thank you for your idea. That's a valid question!

 

24 minutes ago, Nayenia said:

Is there a chance we will see this value added with an upcoming firmware?

I will submit this idea to the right team ; )

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

51 minutes ago, Nayenia said:

Like i said, i am new to home automation.

 

No problem... That's why you and I are here

I was a newbie once and I really understand your disappointment. I bet we can fix that.

 

51 minutes ago, Nayenia said:

I wanted to be able to send the heater a setpoint and be able to monitor the temperature of the room (e.g. by rules (time, presence, etc.pp)). Maybe i am also missing something here...

For example, i create a rule that says "if it's between 5-11pm and you notice my presence set the temperature in the living room to 22.5°C". The rule fires, the thermostat receives a setpoint at 22.5° and starts heating.

How do i "know" it reached the targetted temp if i have no other sensor?

 

Ah! Now I understand! Let's get some things straight.

 

• The FGT is a THERMOSTAT. It does not use your controller, to regulate temperature. You tell the FGT to go to 22 °C and it does that for you. It does not need a controller or a temperature reference, nor does it need a room thermostat and you also do not have to buy the external probe...
• The thermostat can either use its internal sensor or the special extra bluetooth low energy "button" external probe. The extra sensor can be in a more optimal place: the right height, no direct sunlight, nearer to the spot where you want to control temperature. With this probe, the FGT starts reporting temperature too. It reports to the valve every 10 minutes. To conserve power and reduce network traffic, the FGT only sends temperature to the controller every 2-3 hours or when the temperature readings differ by 0.5-1 degree from the last report.
• You can turn the knob to change the set point. No magic involved. For instance. Turn the ring until it displays "cyan" and it will regulate the valve, until the temperature averages 18 °C. It does not need the extra sensor, because there is one (actually two) and the device itself has an algorithm to go to the set temperature. It also does not really need a controller, all magic is performed by the micro-controller onboard.
• You get more interesting possibilities, with a Z-Wave controller. You can send temperature settings to the controller via your app, or using the browser interface. Like: "go to 23 °C for 4 hours". Because it is a FLIRS (frequently listening routing slave) device, roughly one second after you change the temperature, it will take into account your new target value! So there is no "wake up" interval (and delay) like ordinary battery operated device.
• So now you have a "remote control" for your thermostat. It still does not need your controller or a temperature sensor to control the temperature. Sometimes, it is more convenient to use your phone or a tablet. But it's not real automation (yet).
• The next step would be to use the heating panel. The heating panel is nothing but a scheduler. It contains time/temperature settings. And all it does is send the schedule to the valve. Again, the FGT is fully autonomous after it receives the schedule. But now you can override the schedule by turning the knob, or by using the app. You get manual override and holiday mode as a bonus. You need to understand the concept of zones and rooms and maybe take into account that one FGT remote sensor can send temperature
• If this still isn't enough control, you can use lua to send a set-point to the valve. even now you do not need an extra temperature measurement...
• All it needs is... a steady source of hot water. And this brings us to the issue of room thermostat and boiler control. The boiler should take care of the hot water problem. It has a boiler thermostat, and possibly some settings and maybe an external probe. You see, I do not mention a "room thermostat" when I talk about boiler control, this is intentional. Please read on.

Is your boiler less than about 20 years old, and do you already have Thermostatic Radiator Valves on all radiators? Then you almost certainly do not need a room thermostat, so please remove your room thermostat. You also do not need scripts and relays to control your boiler. This is a general advice. It *always* surprises people. It seems like magic, no boiler control and no room thermostat, yet the idea behind it is simple... Please give it some thought then fully dismiss the idea if you do not like it. Like electrical systems, heating systems come in to many variants. To give 100% accurate advice, you'll have to tell a lot more and I cannot answer all questions, that's what a heating specialist is for... Also, you do whatever you want so below you'll find scripts for boiler control anyway.

 

Boiler control is a tough topic... I recommend you read a few of my posts in the topics below, then continue the discussion there... Or search the forum, there is more to find out...

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by petergebruers
Added 3d topic, "PID heating control".

[petergebruers 1,261]

On 12/19/2017 at 12:28 PM, petergebruers said:

You know what? I'll set up a test: I already have a temperature sensor in the room, at the correct height near the sofa. That is my reference. I'll add a second one, right on top of the FGT, then monitor it for maybe a few days...  Give me some time to set this up. Let's find out how "inaccurate" it would be, assuming that the added sensor would work like the one in the thermostat.

 

I've posted part one of the results: