Features postponed after 2020

[jwi 53]

On Friday I ordered an HC3. More out of curiosity. Yesterday I read that

Fibaro postponed some features until 2021.
It is about this:
▪ ZigBee devices support
▪ Bluetooth Low Energy devices support
▪ Energy management panel
▪ Temperature charts panel
▪ Energy consumption charts panel
▪ Gateway connection with Home Center 2 / Lite

Since I have known Fibaro for years, I am not surprised, but if I had known that on Friday, I would not have ordered it.

[jgab 1,957]

2 hours ago, SmartHomeEddy said:

With Lua programming, Quickapps and not that many support for integration by Fibaro it indeed tends to B2B. The only other way to support customers who don't know Lua, is with this forum. But Fibaro doesn't have that much focus on the forum, so more and more it will be B2B, and the more higher cost solutions. 

And without the means of protecting the source code of integrations with Quickapp, not many B2B partners will create commercial integrations. 

I don't think Installers will be the source of innovative QAs.

The "Now I installed smart switches and everything - You can buy a custom made QA from me to automate your day - actually you have to buy it from me because you don't have admin rights on the box"... that kind of "captive" market is not going to last.

 

I do think that B2B partners could create QAs for their devices using proprietary protocols and protect the code - kind of the discussion of binary drivers for the Linux kernel - and that's fair.

 

Then of course, if a B2B partner, or any developer, come up with ex. the ultimate scheduler app that was so easy that anyone could use it - you may want to protect the code so you can get some money back from the investment.

 

Idea: The ultimate Scheduler QA and then a really user friendly Web UI that would allow non-coders to click and drag rules for their daily home automation task? Because we don't seem to get a decent UI from Fibaro before that market opportunity has passed (Yes, you could probably do it in NR, but a browser only JS UI that push config/rules to a QA would be enough)

The innovative part would be the UI as I have still not seen something that's both user friendly enough and flexible enough... (and no, the answer is not wiring boxes in NR  )

Edited July 5, 2021 by jgab

[jgab 1,957]

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Edited July 5, 2021 by jgab

[jgab 1,957]

Is it possible to delete a post?

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by jgab

[akatar 207]

I agree on most of youre parts,

 

A big problem is that there is no money to make for coders.

If you look at homeseer (yeah yeah again) there is a market for buying plugins and a lot of people buying them.

 

So the things i miss with fibaro:

(good) plugins / marketplace where people can sell/buy them

An open way to create your own touchscreen, i hate the "daddy knows best mentality

i want to decide what's on my screen

 

This is also the reason i only use hc3 for a couple of zwave devices and for the rest... it;s homeseer

Please login or register to see this code.

[jgab 1,957]

15 hours ago, akatar said:

I agree on most of youre parts,

 

A big problem is that there is no money to make for coders.

If you look at homeseer (yeah yeah again) there is a market for buying plugins and a lot of people buying them.

 

So the things i miss with fibaro:

(good) plugins / marketplace where people can sell/buy them

An open way to create your own touchscreen, i hate the "daddy knows best mentality

i want to decide what's on my screen

 

This is also the reason i only use hc3 for a couple of zwave devices and for the rest... it;s homeseer

So the question is if the ability to charge for QAs/Scenes alone will attract good developers (and thus great QAs/Scenes) or if it's something more lacking in the Fibaro platform?

A typical model in open source is that the code is free but you charge for support - that could be a model here too as many people need help to adopt the scenes/QAs to their specific conditions.

[robw 116]

Personally I was put off by HomeSeer. I looked at it a bit and even installed it. I'm not saying it is bad or anything, but I found that the cost was high (HS4 Pro costs 359 USD, and then some plugins on top of that). Instead I went with Home Assistant that is free and got tons of integrations and plugins that is updated weekly. The only cost was the hardware. Easy to setup, yet offers advanced scripting or easy to make automations. There's a lot of free templates also done by contributing people. You can setup your UI however you want it, with your own backgrounds, images, icons or whatever. All free of charge.

 

The HC3 have been out for quite awhile now, and Fibaro does not seem so interested in making additions themselves, but are relying on others to make QA:s. Sure, I guess there could be some bucks made by programmers making plugins, but I don't think you would make gold on that. And, from what I can see, the interests seems not so high for the HC3. I think many have have left the forums here and Fibaro, or are still keeping their HC2 running whatever it have done for years.

[SmartHomeEddy 818]

3 hours ago, robw said:

Instead I went with Home Assistant that is free and got tons of integrations and plugins that is updated weekly. The only cost was the hardware. Easy to setup, yet offers advanced scripting or easy to make automations. There's a lot of free templates also done by contributing people. You can setup your UI however you want it, with your own backgrounds, images, icons or whatever. All free of charge.

 

I also have Home Assistant running only for a "Plan B". But I know there is no such thing as "for free". 

[akatar 207]

3 hours ago, robw said:

Personally I was put off by HomeSeer. I looked at it a bit and even installed it. I'm not saying it is bad or anything, but I found that the cost was high (HS4 Pro costs 359 USD, and then some plugins on top of that).

Correct, i bought secondhand hs2, updated for 60 dollars to hs3 and now 60 dollars (or so) to hs4

Indeed most plugins costs money (not all of them) i have no problem paying for a plugin that works good.

 

I paid a lot of money for hc3 and it does the same as hc2, no more no less.

That's  money down tha drain

[robw 116]

On 7/6/2021 at 4:23 PM, akatar said:

Correct, i bought secondhand hs2, updated for 60 dollars to hs3 and now 60 dollars (or so) to hs4

Indeed most plugins costs money (not all of them) i have no problem paying for a plugin that works good.

 

I paid a lot of money for hc3 and it does the same as hc2, no more no less.

That's  money down tha drain

Yes, I feel the same, the HC3 has a different UI than HC2 but otherwise for the daily use it does the same thing. If ones hobby is to sit and code, it is a different matter. But If you just want to run your normal automations like lights, alarm etc., the HC2 can do it as good as the HC3. So, you're right, money in the drain for me, too!

 

f you got a secondhand HS2 it could be worth it. It all depends what you like and need. In my case, HA provides we with all I need and want, and I don't have to pay for any integrations or plugins . But I would not have any issue paying for it, if it was really good and did things nothing else did. So far I haven't found myself missing any feature, integration or plugin in HA, quite the opposite - I am overwhelmed!  Good luck with the HS4, I'm sure you will be happy with it, it does seem good, too!

Edited July 8, 2021 by robw

[alex88 70]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:57 AM, jgab said:

Yes, you could probably do it in NR,

 

For a scheduler you could build a nice UI using uibuilder, so any numpty could schedule tasks....but yes, you can also wire stuff up in the native UI if you want to do it quick and dirty.

 

[Flemming64 2]

Is there any news regarding update incl. Zigbee or at least some zigbee brands?
Will there be an update this year on HC3 with that?
Flemming

[A.Socha 112]

14 minut temu, Flemming64 napisał:

Is there any news regarding update incl. Zigbee or at least some zigbee brands?
Will there be an update this year on HC3 with that?
Flemming

Zigbee will be implemented similarly to zwave 3.0 While the development work is slowly coming to an end, we do not plan to implement zigbee this year. A beta with Zigbee engine is expected around Q2 2022

This year we will mainly focus on the energy panel, which will be extended and scenes will be added to use its capabilities. We will expand support for Nice and Elero devices. A lot of work will be devoted to the mobile application, from which we will give the possibility of partial configuration of the gateway. We will expand the possibilities of z-wave 3.0 by migrations and some improvements. We will also spend more time on improving the stability and performance, and will enter with our devices in several new markets, which so far can only buy HCL.

[akatar 207]

4 hours ago, A.Socha said:

 will enter with our devices in several new markets, which so far can only buy HCL.

Eeh?  hc3 with 700 chip?  or something else?

[A.Socha 112]

22 minuty temu, akatar napisał:

Eeh?  hc3 with 700 chip?  or something else?

HC3L and yubii on another markets

[10der 830]

15 hours ago, A.Socha said:

Zigbee will be implemented similarly to zwave 3.0 While the development work is slowly coming to an end, we do not plan to implement zigbee this year. A beta with Zigbee engine is expected around Q2 2022

This year we will mainly focus on the energy panel, which will be extended and scenes will be added to use its capabilities. We will expand support for Nice and Elero devices. A lot of work will be devoted to the mobile application, from which we will give the possibility of partial configuration of the gateway. We will expand the possibilities of z-wave 3.0 by migrations and some improvements. We will also spend more time on improving the stability and performance, and will enter with our devices in several new markets, which so far can only buy HCL.

No comments, Sir. 
 

[akatar 207]

10 hours ago, 10der said:

No comments, Sir. 
 

There is a first time for everything

[sergiobaiao 5]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:28 AM, A.Socha said:

Zigbee will be implemented similarly to zwave 3.0 While the development work is slowly coming to an end, we do not plan to implement zigbee this year. A beta with Zigbee engine is expected around Q2 2022

This year we will mainly focus on the energy panel, which will be extended and scenes will be added to use its capabilities. We will expand support for Nice and Elero devices. A lot of work will be devoted to the mobile application, from which we will give the possibility of partial configuration of the gateway. We will expand the possibilities of z-wave 3.0 by migrations and some improvements. We will also spend more time on improving the stability and performance, and will enter with our devices in several new markets, which so far can only buy HCL.

I do understand that Fibaro has it's own priorities for development, specially after it was acquired by Nice, but what i don't understand is why they are not taking into account it's users priorities. I think, and i may be wrong, that almost everyone that invested their money on the HC3 did it because of multi-protocol support. HC3, in regards of z-wave connectivity, is not a huge improvement over HC2, it's not even z-wave 700 (which was pushed to HCL3, great job Fibaro), and as of now most of HC3 functionality, if not all, were present on HC2 (and HC2 had a better web UI). So, IMHO, i think Fibaro should, at least, give it's users a real roadmap on users priorities development, maybe create a public pool on what should be prioritized over it's own business matters. So far, Zigbee and BTLE support have been postponed several times, and every single time a Fibaro rep talks about this, it's to postpone it a little more. It's not only un-ethical, but also un-lawful, to sell a piece of equipment promising it has support for "all kind of devices", while in the end it doesn't do it. If this was taken to court in several countries, Fibaro would be in a bad place. 

 

 

[tinman 1,025]

11 hours ago, sergiobaiao said:

I think, and i may be wrong ... HC3, in regards of z-wave connectivity, is not a huge improvement over HC2, it's not even z-wave 700 (which was pushed to HCL3, great job Fibaro),

 

i might help you to understand this better

 

 

 

[SmartHomeEddy 818]

20 hours ago, sergiobaiao said:

A beta with Zigbee engine is expected around Q2 2022

 

And before you know it, it is Q2 and we have the long awaiting Zigbee thing.