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Fibato Hc3 Fraud


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Due to false advertising, leading costumers to buy product that doesnt deliver what they promised, under european consumer law its a fraud. 

I would like to propose to hc3 user a petition to sue Fibaro, i will report them to OLAF, but if other users are willing to push this. I am willing to hire attorneys and see this trough.

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I have to agree with @VedranS.


Fibaro announced the premiere of the HC3 product, creating the illusion that it is a fully professional product with the ability to support multiple protocols (z-wave, zigbee, wifi).
Unfortunately, after the installation, a great disappointment was left because the presented product should not be sold, but still developed in the Fibaro laboratory or should have the prefix DIY.

 

I agree that there is no perfect solution specially software and each has more or less bugs.
The problem  is the lack of tools to diagnose these problems. Everything that is available is basically due to community involvement.
Not everyone wants to and not everyone has knowledge about the technological side of this solution (API, restAPIO, LUA, ngnx etc.)

 

The main accusations that I see from my side (as a new user) to Fibaro products:

- creating the impression or even misleading that the products, in particular HC3, are ready for use,
- bugs in the software with a lack of information when and whether they will be removed. E.g:

 

-- The heat controller during the reconfiguration causing the HC3 heat controller restarts (every 3-4 times the attempt ends like this),

błąd heat controller.jpg

 

-- Firmware heat controller cannot be updated in security mode. You have to exclude the device first, change the mode to non-secure and add it to HC3 again and update the firmware. Then repeat the whole process if you want to use the device in the secure mode.
Is it normal ?
-- RGBW2 - there is no possibility of control when using the mobile application and wall switch (I described it in the forum)
-- Problems with very simple block and LUA scenes (randomly stop working, without any error routine),
-- Errors in temperature readings in the heat controller devices reaching 2-3 degrees C. The test was conducted on a sample of 8 devices placed in the same conditions. I understand that there is an offset option, but unfortunately I cannot use a universal indication for all  Fibaro heat controllers devices.
- Lack of complete and developed documentations related to configuration and programming (commands, fucntions, variables etc), .
- Lack of rodamaps with information when new (overdue)  functionalities will be available,

 

There are definitely many more bugs that you probably knows better than me.

 

Unfortunately, the amount of time I spend diagnosing problems and looking for solutions is terrifying.

 

I suggest that FIbaro products have "Do it yourself" in the name and the price should be half the current price. Then there will be no disappointments.

 

I have been working in the IT industry for over 20 years (delivery & project management) and the only such bad product comparable to Fibaro HC3 was Windows Vista ;)

 

At the same time, I would like to thank people on this forum, whom I do not know personally, but thanks to the fact that they share their knowledge with other users, Fibaro products work somehow.

 

Best regards

 

Edited by mariokil
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Hi @VedranS,

you are describing what you're willing to do, but no word about, what are you willing to achieve...

 

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Well, for start, i am from croatia. We have 3 fibaro dealers in country, and all of them they dont accept returns of products, my hc is a paper weight in office. 

Second.. i purchased hc3 because they advertised , hue support, 433 support. All *abuse* protocols, none of them works. After all hc3 is expensive. Its been almost a year. Nothing works. I am simply asking another users should we sue them. I am not asking anything for free. After all i paid for product. I dont know, are you happy for paying 400$ for paper weight? 

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What i want to achieve, stop potentional buyers to be scammed. Simply enough. Why would anyone buy hc3? Nothing works. Did you see their advertisement? Its been a year and still nothing works

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In this forum there is 4,5 person who develop apps , thats not enough. I have respect for developers but fibaro wants users to finish their product and that is not going to happen. In one year, in marketplace they pushed 2 apps worth installing. 

And for finish, who wants to learn *abuse* lua, maybe java or python. But *abuse* lua

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good Morning

Now let's take a more neutral look at it!
The HC3 certainly has its quirks that no one wants to contest.
I also paid a lot of money for my HC3.
I, too, had promised myself a working product that I could get started with immediately.
I guess I got one of the first and what was really nothing but really nothing worked.
Only after I had installed the first update did I get something to work.
But it was all a little longer ago.
Then I got 80 actuators and sensors to work and quickly got a system that calmed me down for the time being.
I come from the "homee" and some things are not OK and there was more promises than they kept.
All systems based on software mature at the customer.
Windows, OS2, Android, Linux, etc.
Nothing is really ready and never is it!
Look what you've got and be really objective!
My HC3 is now running with many functions and actuators and sensors.
Yes, some things annoy me and I would also like to have a 100% system.
But what is 100% for me is possibly a 30% system or 130% system for others that is always in the eye of the beholder.
So please stay factual and fair.
Let's all try to help each other that helps Fibaro too.
For my part I have never seen a reason to demonize the HC3.
Greetings from Germany / Sauerland
Frank

 

guten morgen

Nun betrachten wir das mal etwas Neutraler !
Der HC3 hat sicherlich seine Macken das will sicher keiner betreiten.
Auch ich habe viel Geld für meinen HC3 bezahlt.
Auch ich hatte mir ein lauffähiges Produkt versprochen mit dem ich sofort an den Start gehen konnte.
Ich denke mal ich habe einen von den Ersten erhalten und was wahr nichts aber auch wirklich nichts funktionierte.
Erst nach dem ich das Erste Update eingespielt hatte bekam ich etwas zum laufen.
Das alles ist aber auch schon etwas länger her.
Danach habe ich 80 Aktoren und Sensoren zum laufen bekommen und schnell ein System erhalten das mich erst mal beruhigte.
Ich komme vom "homee" und auch da wahr einiges nicht OK und auch da wurde mehr versprochen als gehalten.
Alle Systeme die auf Softwahre basieren reifen beim Kunden.
Windows,OS2,Android,Linux usw.
Nichts ist wirklich fertig und wahr es auch nie !
Schau mal was du alles hast und seih mal wirklich Objektiv !
Jetzt läuft mein HC3 mit vielen Funktionen und Aktoren sowie Sensoren.
Ja mich ärgert auch so manches und ich hätte auch gerne ein 100% System.
Aber was für mich 100% ist ist für andere möglicherweise ein 30% System oder 130% System das liegt immer im Auge des Betrachters.
Also bitte Sachlich bleiben und Fair ein Rundumschlag hilft keinem.
Versuchen wir uns alle gegenseitig zu helfen das hilft auch Fibaro.
Ich für meinen Teil habe nie einen Grund gesehen den HC3 zu verteufeln.
Grüße aus Deutschland/Sauerland
Frank

 

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19 hours ago, VedranS said:

What i want to achieve, stop potentional buyers to be scammed. Simply enough. Why would anyone buy hc3? Nothing works. Did you see their advertisement? Its been a year and still nothing works

Hi @VedranS dobrodosli,

I must say that all current limitations of HC3 were known before they hit the market. In my case, i have also a HC2 at home, currently still running my HA, but HC3 is more mature product than HC2 was. After my experience with HC2 i had not such high expectations as you probably had.

I'm not a developer, however i'm writing my own QuicApps and scene's. My HC3 runs nicely and I'm slowly converting the things from HC2, but i do agree with you, that there are still limitations.

 

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@mariokil

Quote

I have been working in the IT industry for over 20 years (delivery & project management) and the only such bad product comparable to Fibaro HC3 was Windows Vista ;)

If you've been working in the IT industry for so long, you might know that Vista, like the W8, was a totally bad product. What HC3 can really compare to is W10! With each additional upgrade, which fixes something, it will do several things again, and the user is beta testers. Unfortunately, this is a sad truth.


I was also looking forward to Zigbee and other protocols. I was a relatively early customer (my HC3 number is close to 2000). However, I must admit that Fibaro has already openly announced at the time of its launch that support for other protocols is planned for the future. So yes, I bought something for expensive money where I can hope it will work someday. But I got into it! ...
Realize how many hapless people have found a solution by switching from Opensource to Fibaro.
As FBerges wrote, for some it is 30% for some 130%

(Frank, nice wording)

 

As for the DIY sticker, I can agree with that. It is also possible to install this product commercially, but I would have changed my mind and advised the customer about what it was going for! But it's mainly about the price.

Do you really want to give a couple of dollars / euros and want functionality for that? Yes. Reasonable.

Unfortunately, we are now massaged by various Chinese manufacturers, where for a few bucks you have solved the unfolding of the lights, the movement of the blinds, the switching of the 230v sockets all over Wi-Fi (uaaaaaaaaa). But I work in the field and I see the tragedy of implementation and honestly in terms of security (electrical and information IT) I can only warn. But,...for low cost.

Do you want advisory functionality with all the comfort and stability? Multiply your costs for the Fibaro solution approx. 5 -10x, have the project processed and install a functional bus system in the new house / apartment, including a turnkey audio / video solution.

In this context, I believe that almost everyone who buys Fibaro goes in DIY mode and they are actually fan techniques and they enjoy it.

So in conclusion, I can only ask Fibaro to be able to debug all the problems as soon as possible and get satisfied customers back on their side.

For me, I think I got a reasonable product for the right money. Yes, I would like more from her in the future, because I "subscribed" to it. So far, I have everything solved and I'm just looking forward to the light of tomorrow.

 

p.s. And now you can stone me :)

eM.

 

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Hi @Martin_N

 

At the beginning I don't want to stone or cruccified you :) . It's good to discuss and hear for others opinion. 

I don't change my perception based on my own experience that HC3 is not worth their price (at least at this product develop stage phase).

 

8 godzin temu, Martin_N napisał:

Do you want advisory functionality with all the comfort and stability? Multiply your costs for the Fibaro solution approx. 5 -10x, have the project processed and install a functional bus system in the new house / apartment, including a turnkey audio / video solution.

 

I assumed that Fibaro is stable and comfortable. Is in't it ? I don't want to pay extra money for ... solving bugs or mokup made by Fibaro :)
It's ok for me to pay for new feature or license/subsription functionality that you are interested in (i.e. MikroTik, PaloAlto or others), but it must be ready not in RC or beta phase 😱😩 

 

 

 

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Yet, fibaro was one of the best integrated ZWave only platform ... what you say is HC3 does not benefit of years of successful integration, sounds crazy.

 

Hope the most demanded integration are : 

- Third party zwave modules (ex : aeotec) : are they properly working ?

- Logitech Harmony extension : working ?

- Philips Hue extension : working ?

- Sonos : working ?

 

Morover, scenes are they properly working ?

 

LUA scenes and codes : is it possible to quickly rewrite them with renewed code syntax ?

 

Well so many question, as i am waiting for my HC3 to replace my old HC2

 

Best

 

PS : what is your advice ? what should be my migration strategy ?

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@GUENEAU

Hello,

these are questions for another thread. Here is a curse on the manufacturer :)

 

However, I would personally recommend migrating in a clean installation way. Start building it like new. Gradually unsubscribe components from HC2 and subscribe them to HC3. You will not be surprised that something suddenly does not work and you will have a clean installation without ballast and burdened by the past. There are various topics where people solve it.

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Where I feel annoyed is that Fibaro produce a nice and capable piece of new hardware but don't invest in the software resource to deliver a nice overall product.  By the time they are 70% there the nice hardware is outdated and so they produce new hardware , neglect their existing users and set themselves back to a 30% product again.

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