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[SOLVED]FIBARO developers - Danalock confirmed Fibaro issues !!!!


Neo Andersson

Question

Hello guys

We recieved an e-mail from Danalock, that after their internal testing they realized, that Fibaro is not updating the lock statuses.

This is right now our biggest concern.

We are infront of 4 insalltions. In all of them Danalocks are asked.

We are completely out of ideas, because there is no alternative zwave LOCK.

I am asking again Fibaro delevopers. 

Can we await a hotfix for this, or should we cancel our orders? 

 

This is the danaloc support mail

 


An update on the Fibaro issue(s):

We have made internal testing with Danalock V3 and Fibaro HC3.

Following were confirmed: 

- Lock cannot be added in Secure mode (S2).
- Basic parameter: Status is not updated. When you press unlock/lock status will not update. UNLESS you press the button twice.
   

We have reported our findings to Fibaro and are awaiting their response. 
Pls let us know if you get further feedback from them.



Best regards

Maria Suusgaard
Danalock support

 

 

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No problem, generally I do not like those devices (my personal opinion ;)).
I was helping our support with the Danalock case twice already, I am pretty sure that one of them was yours.

As for TCP/IP solution, Tedee is fully integrated with HC3 and old HC2. 

Some technicalities for interested parties below ;)

The main issue with including in S0 is that there is specific security timer in specification (10s) which not allow to respond by the end-device (in this case Danalock) with Security Scheme Report frame (after Security Scheme Get) during security bootstrapping - it is done like that for security reasons. I have simplified this a little bit but I am attaching a diagram for more curious persons which will probably will want to learn a little bit more about it.
"Inclusion complete" should start this timer.

Normally this in not an issue but then device start counting this time just after receiving its nodeId (Danalock) it needs to finish requesting neighbors first, send the list to the gateway and then Security Scheme Get from the controller is being sent. 
Controllers Z-Wave chips sends list of all mains powered devices nodeIds to currently including node, it needs to try to send NOP frames (no operation frames) to every one of them (without routing, only direct communication) to check which one is a potential neighbor. We do not have any way to alter this as this is something done by the chip and the SDK.

If there is a 50 other mains powered devices in the network it just won't get enough time to do this, the more devices are not in direct range the longer requesting neighbor procedure is.
In worst case even with only 10-12 devices in network it just won't include property (in case where there is no direct communication with any of the devices).

When device is in range, NOP frame takes few miliseconds (up to maybe 10ms) with ACK response, if not - up to 2-3 seconds. 

 

image.png.ba3e708d5403567b1802f619595f1cb4.png

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Ah, one more thing.

I can't tell you that this is only a Danalock issue and its their fault, a lot of devices on the market can have the same problems.
Unfortunately in case of Access Control devices you can't just disable security with solves the problem with "typical" devices.

We even contacted Silabs about the issue and potential solutions on our side (SDK update or something else) but they do not have any plans to change this behavior as they introduced S2 Security and old S0 for ZW500 chips are no longer developed.

So the issue originates from the protocol itself and interpretation on specification by a different producers. 
Some will work and some will not.

The only way to overcome this is to change behavior of inclusion timers in end-devices as controllers producers have their hands tied up. 

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  • Thank you for your efforts and tutorial.

    Probably I can't really do anything more than just keep these steps

    1. I will add Danalock as the very first device into customers system

    2. I will select S0 option and/or NWI option.

    3. I will not use Danalock's app Smart integration method, rather will use direct inclusion from Fibaro

    4. I will turn off BLE

    5. I will do the inclusion from a very short range from HC3 (not moving the Danalcok to HC3, but moving HC3 to Danalock)

    6. I will just hope the bet, and wait for some Update from Fibaro or Danalock

     

    Thats it..

     

     

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    If you start by adding the locks it should work ok.
    Better not use NWI, it may not work as doorlock probably won't include with routing and I am not sure how device will behave with this one turned on :)

    You can also request refreshing neighbors list later on after adding other devices - you will find it in Settings -> Z-Wave. 

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    2 minutes ago, Neo Andersson said:

    Thank you..really than you for your efforst

    Not much of a consolation, but I think you now have experienced the two worst parts of Z-Wave, the first one was 'associations' (iirc I told you my rule of thumb: avoid them unless you have a very good reason) and S0 security + locks. Z-Wave is not a single, fixed, set-in-stone standard, it is an "evolving specification" and I am sure many of us would like to forget about S0 and move to S2...

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    Hello, 

     

    I have a Danalock now for many years and get a little fed up of those regular ZWAVE inclusion issues (I did manage yesterday to include it again after 4 hours...).

     

    So one question (maybe stupid): Now that the HC3 supports ZIGBEE, as the Danalock V3, why do not try to work on a ZIGBEE pairing ?

     

    Thx.

    Edited by Brunanchon
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  • 22 hours ago, Brunanchon said:

    Hello, 

     

    I have a Danalock now for many years and get a little fed up of those regular ZWAVE inclusion issues (I did manage yesterday to include it again after 4 hours...).

     

    So one question (maybe stupid): Now that the HC3 supports ZIGBEE, as the Danalock V3, why do not try to work on a ZIGBEE pairing ?

     

    Thx.

    Firs of all, list of ZIGBEE supported deives is very limited at this moment in Fibaro. I think Danalock in not on the list.

    On the other hand. My Danalocks devices are ZWAVE /BUETOOTH versions. They dont support ZIGBEE.

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    @m.roszakSo I was lucky?? My Dana lock is one of the last devices added with a total of 78.

    If I proper understand if I need to reinclude I can be f....d?

    As a simple user I think Zwave device and ZWave controller should work together but in real world>>>>nada.

    If this is the case why Fibaro is not selling the whole group of devices to cover home automation and security?

    When you choice to do different than take care all Zwave devices can be operated by your Zwave controller!!

     

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  • 1 hour ago, Sjakie said:

    @m.roszakSo I was lucky?? My Dana lock is one of the last devices added with a total of 78.

    If I proper understand if I need to reinclude I can be f....d?

    As a simple user I think Zwave device and ZWave controller should work together but in real world>>>>nada.

    If this is the case why Fibaro is not selling the whole group of devices to cover home automation and security?

    When you choice to do different than take care all Zwave devices can be operated by your Zwave controller!!

     

    I think Danalock is working with S2 security level correclty..So if someone dared to install engine 3 on HC3 then it can work i think. However i will not install engine 3  as it has even more problems as far as i know.

    So having S0 security level, Danalocks will rather not work than work. At my customers houses i have tried to install Danalocks at first place, and until we not needed to change batteries, it seemed to work. / but only if they have only 1 Danalock.

    If they have 2 or more, it is more probable than it will not work..

    I have very very bad experiences with Danalocks in S0 security level..

    Even at my own house. After battery change a needed to fight with the system 2 days. Exlude, reinclude, again and again, reconfigure mesh, replace the Danalock, etc.. Most of the time it could Lock and Unlock the device, but the state reporting was always incorrect...so this is gonna be a long long trip, while we will have some really reliable Danalock - Fibaro communication.

    Tedee can be an alternative, but it is WIFI based, and API programmed, so it can stop working at any moment, if API got some changes..

    Ehhh.Really bad...

    Edited by Neo Andersson
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    Hi everyone,

     

    just to add my two cents. I have a HC3 and two Danalocks V3 (zwave) in my house for the front and back doors.

     

    I had some initial issues with adding them to the zwave network, the two things causing issues was: 1. not adding them in secure mode (S0), it resulted with the device being added but not responding to commands, 2. adding them while also connected via Bluetooth in the Danalock app, that resulted in the devices not appearing the HC3.

     

    After using secure mode, and removing them from the Danalock app I was able to add both locks to HC3. I have a "good night" automatation that closes both locks (it's a simple block scene) and it seems to work fine. I can also see the actual status of each lock, and it updates both when operating via zwave or manually.

     

    BUT

     

    I have two different issues:

     

    First, small one, I can't yet figure out how to change Danalock settings via HC3, for example enable/disable the assisted lock/unlock, or even more importantly trigger automatic calibration.

     

    Second, major one, after a few days of working properly (a mix of manual and zwave lock/unlock) the Danalock loses it's calibration, and no longer can properly work. For example it will say it's unlocked, while in reality it's fully locked. When you press unlock it will only do one turn to the left, while it should do two turns. The Automatic/Manual calibration fixes the issue for a few days, and then it returns.

     

    Additionally IMHO the Danalock is a PIA to actually mount properly. The fact that it sits on the top of the lock cilinder, but is bolted to the door itself caused my a lot of issues. Even a 0.1mm misalignment meant the lock wouldn't turn properly.

     

    Recently I've purchased the Gerda Tedee lock, and it has been a miles better expirience. It mounts only on top of the lock cylinder, and requires no screws. It is way smaller and turns faster. It is recharchable via USB so no batteries. And configuring it, and adding it to the HC3 was a breeze. The only downside is that you need to also use the bridge to connect it to WiFi, as it doesn't use zwave directly (HC3 operates it via WiFi). I only had it for a few days, but so far I'm way happier about it.

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  • On 12/14/2022 at 5:20 PM, ThatDude said:

    Hi everyone,

     

    just to add my two cents. I have a HC3 and two Danalocks V3 (zwave) in my house for the front and back doors.

     

    I had some initial issues with adding them to the zwave network, the two things causing issues was: 1. not adding them in secure mode (S0), it resulted with the device being added but not responding to commands, 2. adding them while also connected via Bluetooth in the Danalock app, that resulted in the devices not appearing the HC3.

     

    After using secure mode, and removing them from the Danalock app I was able to add both locks to HC3. I have a "good night" automatation that closes both locks (it's a simple block scene) and it seems to work fine. I can also see the actual status of each lock, and it updates both when operating via zwave or manually.

     

    BUT

     

    I have two different issues:

     

    First, small one, I can't yet figure out how to change Danalock settings via HC3, for example enable/disable the assisted lock/unlock, or even more importantly trigger automatic calibration.

     

    Second, major one, after a few days of working properly (a mix of manual and zwave lock/unlock) the Danalock loses it's calibration, and no longer can properly work. For example it will say it's unlocked, while in reality it's fully locked. When you press unlock it will only do one turn to the left, while it should do two turns. The Automatic/Manual calibration fixes the issue for a few days, and then it returns.

     

    Additionally IMHO the Danalock is a PIA to actually mount properly. The fact that it sits on the top of the lock cilinder, but is bolted to the door itself caused my a lot of issues. Even a 0.1mm misalignment meant the lock wouldn't turn properly.

     

    Recently I've purchased the Gerda Tedee lock, and it has been a miles better expirience. It mounts only on top of the lock cylinder, and requires no screws. It is way smaller and turns faster. It is recharchable via USB so no batteries. And configuring it, and adding it to the HC3 was a breeze. The only downside is that you need to also use the bridge to connect it to WiFi, as it doesn't use zwave directly (HC3 operates it via WiFi). I only had it for a few days, but so far I'm way happier about it.

    It is not your Danalock, that is loosing calibration..I have tested like 30 Danalock already...It is just not working with Fibaro...its not reporting states properly...to be absolute precise..it can work..when it is the only Danalock in the system...but even there is a chance that in some days it will not properly show the statuse...

    Yes, TEDEE is a differenet world, and we are lucky enough that there is that quickapp available for us...but its WIFI base, so its API based,...and i am scared to death, what will i tell to my customers, when TEDDE just chnages some API commands in the future...the app wont work anymore, my customers wont get into theiir houses...i dont like using API mostly when it comes to door locks..but unfortunatelly there is just no other option right now.

    I am finished with Danalock for ever, thats for sure...it could be a fault on FIbaro side, becuase Danalock works fine in other systems, but its easier to change a lock and stay with Fibaro than chage off Fibaro and stay with Danalock..

    It is still a big surprise for me, why none of manufacturers is producing any ZWAVE locks...i dont know..so at this moment only TEDEE is an option..

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