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Alarm behavior dramatically changed


fratus
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Alarm
Added checking sensors status before arming the alarm.

 

First issue

It's ok to check sensor status before arming, and maybe providing feedback to the user that sensors X, Y and Z are open, but - unless I am mistaken - you have also changed the behavior of the Alarm breach status.

For instance, now if a zone is armed with sensors *already* breached, the alarm will trigger right away.

 

This is not a desired behavior for some users, including myself, as I do have an interior zone as part of my arming routine, for which I don't usually close all doors before leaving for a short period of time. I only ensure *all doors* are closed, including inside doors, when I leave for long periods.

As such in the past the alarm only triggered when there was a sensor *change*, and so I could arm the alarm without closing all zones, now it triggers as soon as a sensor is *open*;

 

Is there a way to have a configuration setting in the alarm panel that would allow to decide, as a user, if I want to :

- only get a notification of which sensors are open at the time of arming, or

- get a notification of which sensors are open at the time of arming, and trigger the alarm when it is fully armed. (current behavior - although I feel the notification is poorly implemented, cf Second issue)

 

I reckon that is a poorly implemented update.

 

Second issue

When you arm from your mobile application, you do not get any notification of which sensors are open and could prevent a successful arming of your alarm, so you leave the house, arm remotely, and a minute or so later your alarm triggers without you knowing whether that's because you left something open (including interior doors if you have an interior zone), or if it is a real breach.

 

Please enlist the help of an experienced Product Manager and/or UX designer, as these changes to a critical feature related to safety are not taking in consideration a lot of use cases...

 

thanks -

 

 

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@fratus,

I use Event Runner from JGab.

I have in my arming what you want.

I have:

-arming when sleep

-arming if everybody away

-Ring security for outside ring we use after 19:00 or sunset >>is not in alarm pannel.

 

If we arm the complex it will Telegram us wich door/window is open. Two possibilities leave it open or close the device.

If you want to close the device you must stop arming scene, close the device and arm again.

Also if there is alarm it will telegram wich device caused the alarm.

Notification will also work if you arm from phone.

I use a Fibaro relais to arm/disarm, I should see if I can cancel this is a leftover from HC2 and replace by a QA.

Succes

//Sjakie

 

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43 minutes ago, fratus said:

For instance, now if a zone is armed with sensors *already* breached, the alarm will trigger right away.


It only triggers the alarm if there is Exit delay configured, it won't trigger it if not.

 

 

43 minutes ago, fratus said:

When you arm from your mobile application, you do not get any notification of which sensors are open and could prevent a successful arming of your alarm, so you leave the house, arm remotely, and a minute or so later your alarm triggers without you knowing whether that's because you left something open (including interior doors if you have an interior zone), or if it is a real breach.


Also nope, it does not affect arming as the change is backward compatible, it will arm the alarm always using mobile app.
Soon the app will follow and will work the same as in web UI. 

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  • 9 hours ago, m.roszak said:

    It only triggers the alarm if there is Exit delay configured, it won't trigger it if not.

     

    Hi there - thanks. I do indeed use exit delay. I can live with removing exit delay, so I'll do that - still it would be great to see the ability to select which behavior we want as a user, in a future release.

     

     

    10 hours ago, m.roszak said:

    Also nope, it does not affect arming as the change is backward compatible, it will arm the alarm always using mobile app.
    Soon the app will follow and will work the same as in web UI. 

     

    It does arm the alarm, but in my use case the alarm triggers right away - which defeats the purpose of the whole mobile experience. I will however test the same use case without exit delay and see whether it behaves better.

     

    Thanks for the prompt feedback -

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  • 10 hours ago, Sjakie said:

    @fratus,

    I use Event Runner from JGab.

    I have in my arming what you want.

    I have:

    -arming when sleep

    -arming if everybody away

    -Ring security for outside ring we use after 19:00 or sunset >>is not in alarm pannel.

     

    If we arm the complex it will Telegram us wich door/window is open. Two possibilities leave it open or close the device.

    If you want to close the device you must stop arming scene, close the device and arm again.

    Also if there is alarm it will telegram wich device caused the alarm.

    Notification will also work if you arm from phone.

    I use a Fibaro relais to arm/disarm, I should see if I can cancel this is a leftover from HC2 and replace by a QA.

    Succes

    //Sjakie

     

     

    Thanks Sjakie,

     

    I might try that if I cannot resolve by other means.

     

    When arming when everybody away, are you using Fibaro's mobile app geofence ? 

    I have found that the geofence is not 100% accurate (on iPhone at least), ie sometimes it detects a phone leaves/enters the zone, but sometimes (maybe 1/3 of the time) it misses the trigger and only detects I've entered/left the zone a few minutes later.

     

    I would have loved to be able to open my gate with geofence, but it is a bit hit and miss and most of the time the gate doesn't open or opens way too late (even if I set a rather large geofencing zone) - but this is not alarm related, so I might leave that for another thread :)

    F.

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    I use JGab his QA's with IPhone. Presence I used only for de-arming to see if its relaiable and it is.  and close to the fr

    Note: I park my car at the drive way beside my house 9 m from front door, leave car and 2-3 m from the front door  house is dis-armed.

    HC3 is 3 m away from front door.

    One of my outside lights is changing color arm, dis-arm, movement in living so I could always check if coming home dis-armed>>yes it did.

    For arming I will use it also when my new house is ready.

    I had my front door lock(Dana) automated when arive door opens! Its back on hand because I did it wrong so will try again if house is ready.

    The wrong part was not in entering the premesis but the lock opend a few times when I was in bed. Happenly I made a notification for each command and state.

    //Sjakie

     

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    12 hours ago, fratus said:

    When arming when everybody away, are you using Fibaro's mobile app geofence ? 

    I have found that the geofence is not 100% accurate (on iPhone at least), ie sometimes it detects a phone leaves/enters the zone, but sometimes (maybe 1/3 of the time) it misses the trigger and only detects I've entered/left the zone a few minutes later.

     

    I would have loved to be able to open my gate with geofence, but it is a bit hit and miss and most of the time the gate doesn't open or opens way too late (even if I set a rather large geofencing zone) - but this is not alarm related, so I might leave that for another thread :)

    Geofencing with iPhone is somewhat troublesome! A solution using HC3 scenes was not reliable. Even using IFTTT was not reliable. The only reliable geofencing with iPhone in my case was using Homebridge (on HOOBS), where Homekit triggers a QA binary switch as device. Using Homebridge for geofencing with iPhone was a tip from @10dersome time ago (I hope you are well @10der in your poor country).

    Homebridge is also a nice solution for using a NEST thermostat.

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    12 hours ago, fratus said:
    23 hours ago, m.roszak said:

    It only triggers the alarm if there is Exit delay configured, it won't trigger it if not.

     

    Hi there - thanks. I do indeed use exit delay. I can live with removing exit delay, so I'll do that - still it would be great to see the ability to select which behavior we want as a user, in a future release.


    Generally in alarm system it must work like that.
    Exit delay is the time to close the door behind you when leaving protected space - if you won't close the door in time then alarm will be triggered, its normal :)
     

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  • Thanks Sjakie - I'll have a look as well.

     

    I just confirmed that when arming without exit delay, we keep the old behavior...More or less - it seems that before a change of state on a door, whether it was "opened" or "closed", would trigger the alarm - ie if you armed whith open doors, the action of closing one of them would trigger the alarm as far as I can remember. Now it seems it only triggers on "opened".

    Not a big deal for me, and as I said above I could live with no Exit Delay - it still isn't my preferred behavior and I would prefer to see configuration parameters to decide as a user whether we want to allow arming with "opened" sensors or not - regardless of the presence of an Exit Delay or not.

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    Exit delay is a very nice option especailly if you discover you are human and forget something to go, back in.

    //Sjakie

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    • 3 months later...

    Event Runner will give you all options you need and even more!

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