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Associations not triggering


Ettrig
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Having an issue where associations doesn't work at all..¬†ūüėě

Trying to get a Fibaro Motion sensor trigger a Dimmer2. See image below how my association setup looks.

 

Notes

Using a scene I can get it to work (but I want to use association instead to not rely on the hub)

I did set my HC3 up with Z-wave 3.0 - can this be the problem?

(I note that the Motion Sensor seems added as s0 device.. I couldn't get it to register as S2, but the same goes for all my Dimmer2s (they also registered as security S0))

 

Before I reset the entire thing and re-do the entire setup I figured I'd throw this question out and see if anyone can have any idea why it's not working..

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Ettrig said:

I did set my HC3 up with Z-wave 3.0 - can this be the problem?

 

Short answer: yes, Engine 3.0 may have caused this issue.

 

Please carefully read this, the reason why it does not work and a possible workaround are in this post:

 

I have been warning users about associations and while I do have them, they are full of "surprising little details" so actually I would recommend you stick with your scene solution, as you say:

 

9 minutes ago, Ettrig said:

Using a scene I can get it to work

 

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BTW here is previous topic, where I explain why "associations" are not my favourite thing:

 

 

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  • Inquirer
  • Interesting :)..

     

    I am so curios so I might actually switch back to old Z-Wave engine (need to re-configure my entire network ~40 devices).. although. maybe I have just overthought this.. I am not that traversed in Z-Wave history, so if you say I should focus on Scenes instead.. maybe I should..


    The potential of associations seems exciting, and it's always annoying when you don't get something working.

     

    I do use an association that works with a "Fibaro The Button" to trigger Smart Implant for my Smart door lock and that works great, hence I was very annoyed to not get this working.. 

     

    Thanks for the response!

     

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    @Ettrig , does the sensor and light have the same security level? When I tested associations some time ago, then I got problem pair Fibaro Walli switch to Fibaro Dimmer 2 if Walli switch was added as S2A, while Dimmer 2 module was added as S0.

     

    @petergebruers, I actually preffer association wheter it is possible as it makes some functions decentralized.

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    41 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

    I actually preffer association wheter it is possible as it makes some functions decentralized.

    I think you mean "when a simple problem can be solved with association then I prefer that because it doesn't need the controller".

     

    We actually agree on that, but we have been doing this for many many years... We know the limitations and quirks of association.

     

    You have to see my advice in the context of this question.

     

    For example, motion activated scenes often start simple but then people start refining it and add conditions and associations simply won't work.

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  • Inquirer
  • Yes I think all devices are added as secure (seems to be default in ZWave 3.0 Engine).

    Tthey show the little "lock" icon next to them in the device list.

    It's FGMS-001 (Motion Sensor) and FGD-212 (Dimmer2)

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    6 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

    I think you mean "when a simple problem can be solved with association then I prefer that because it doesn't need the controller".

    Yes. I actually use combo of both Associations and Scenes.

     

    I use Associations with motion sensor to just turn on lights and if possible set parameter so it does not turn off devices. Then I do scene automation for turning off devices as I need some delays to check if motion stays in safe possition.

     

    1 minute ago, Ettrig said:

    It's FGMS-001 (Motion Sensor) and FGD-212 (Dimmer2)

    Both are S0 devices, so they should work no problem with each other. Have you set parameter 18 so association is sent as secured?

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  • @jakub.jezekwhen you write that you "use associations for motion sensors to turn on lights and if possible set parameters to.."

    What if you want to disable a motion sensor for a set duration? What do you mean with "set parameters" is that something that you can do with associations too? :) 
     

    I haven't figured out a clever way to do what I want achieve using only Associations cause I want to have a possibility to "disable the sensor" upon an external event for a set duration.

     

    I solve this by using a Scene, basically:

    When the lights in a room turns off - I set a delay (setting a variable for ~x ms) 

    If the motion sensor gets triggered, the scene that activates lights checks the variable and if it's set, it doesn't turn on the lights.

    (This is to prevent lights from going on again if you turn off the lights on the switch before leaving the room)

     

    I haven't figured out a clever way to achieve this without using scenes :D

    (I spent a ton of time trying to work around with the alarm cancellation delay in the Motion Sensor etc.. but the problem was "how to disable the motion sensor for a set duration upon a separate action")

    It would be very handy if Motion Sensors could receive a "sleep for x ms" command from another device.. but that's not possible?..

    12 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

    Yes. I actually use combo of both Associations and Scenes.

     

    I use Associations with motion sensor to just turn on lights and if possible set parameter so it does not turn off devices. Then I do scene automation for turning off devices as I need some delays to check if motion stays in safe possition.

     

    Both are S0 devices, so they should work no problem with each other. Have you set parameter 18 so association is sent as secured?

     

    Yes I have set Parameter 18

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    2 minutes ago, Ettrig said:

    What if you want to disable a motion sensor for a set duration? What do you mean with "set parameters" is that something that you can do with associations too? :) 

    Well, Z-Wave behaves like light version of wireless KNX (setting deviceparameters -> transmitter, FGMS-001, sends command to receiver, Dimmer 2), so you need to set parameters on Motion sensor (sending securely, PIR blind time, ....). Unfortunatelly Blind time (motion sensor does not sence motion)) can be max. 8 seconds. After that it send Off.  See Configuration -> Parameters -> Prameter 2 (

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    ). That is why I use combo of Associations (turn device ON) and Scenes (turn device Off).

     

    9 minutes ago, Ettrig said:

    I solve this by using a Scene, basically:

    When the lights in a room turns off - I set a delay (setting a variable for ~x ms) 

    If the motion sensor gets triggered, the scene that activates lights checks the variable and if it's set, it doesn't turn on the lights.

    (This is to prevent lights from going on again if you turn off the lights on the switch before leaving the room)

    Go for Scene. For this you need a scene.

     

    10 minutes ago, Ettrig said:

    I haven't figured out a clever way to achieve this without using scenes :D

    (I spent a ton of time trying to work around with the alarm cancellation delay in the Motion Sensor etc.. but the problem was "how to disable the motion sensor for a set duration upon a separate action")

    You cannot do that via Associations, sorry. Z-Wave is not KNX where you can do it with no problem.

     

    Problem is that manufacturer would need to make Association group for blocking presence sensign on Dimmer and Z-Wave sensor would need to be Flir in order to receive it immeadiatelly. There would also need to be some parameters for setting disable time, ...

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