Phantom menace (RGBW)

[Kuba13 49]

Right so here is a problem:

SOMETIMES (rather sparsly but still enough to warrant me bugging Fibaro about it) RGBW makes phanthom associations for no bloody reasson.

 

It happened a while back and only replacement of specific RGBW module seemed to help that was in pre "100" era tho.

Most recent case i have are 2 RGBW modules (v 2.5) running on same HC2 4.100, reading tempriture and humidity via IN1 and IN2.

 

Confirmed at least one of them caused it (once disconnected from power the random behaviour stoped), second of those RGBW is very strong suspect. Sad thing is that the second RGBW seems to have worked fine untill the first one was disconnected.

 

Now i seek aid, advice and wisdom. if annyone had this happen to them please add your controller, its FW and mofule's FW aswell - lets see if we can help fibaro figure this one out!

[petergebruers 1,261]

The RGBW module in my garden shed is now punished. It turned on the LEDs all by itself. Maybe it is not the root cause of phantom activity, but because it is at the edge of a direct connection to my HC2 I decided to try an alternate approach, that cost me 10 EUR plus some time and effort:

 

Please login or register to see this image.

/monthly_2017_09/H801_mod.jpg.649da8e7e261ecb6b1f6211adac74f8d.jpg" alt="H801_mod.jpg.649da8e7e261ecb6b1f6211adac74f8d.jpg" />

 

It is the "H801 Wifi". It is a 12-24 V RGBW1W1 PWM LED driver. It is about twice the size (volume) of an RGBW module. 100% Chinese. Based on ESP8266. It comes with and app but I did not even bother with that. I added wires to the board so I could flash my own firmware.

As you've probably guessed, this module has no 0-10V input. Correct! But right now I am soldering the ADC pin to a resistor divider so I will soon find out if I can make this work

[petergebruers 1,261]

Still busy with the phantom module...

 

I soldered some SMD components to my H801 in pure (but amateurish) Manhattan Style and now I get 0-10 V from my Loxon Outdoor Light Sensor.

 

So I repurposed the RGBW that was in the garden shed and I now use it in the kitchen to drive a red and a white strip. This should bring the module in direct range. Now we only have to wait for 1 - 2 weeks to see if something happens...

 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Edited October 6, 2017 by petergebruers

[jakub.jezek 350]

Hi @petergebruers,

 

I found in RGBW master device (through API) properies association property. If my hunch is correct, then you should be able to see associations there. Even phantom associations could be there (hopefully).

 

setting of one of RGBWs in showroom: "associations": "[{\"endPointId\":0,\"groups\":[{\"groupInfo\":{\"commands\":[],\"name\":\"\",\"profile\":\"\"},\"id\":1,\"singleChannel\":{\"max\":5,\"set\":[1],\"view\":[1]}},{\"groupInfo\":{\"commands\":[],\"name\":\"\",\"profile\":\"\"},\"id\":2,\"singleChannel\":{\"max\":5,\"set\":[1],\"view\":[1]}},{\"groupInfo\":{\"commands\":[],\"name\":\"\",\"profile\":\"\"},\"id\":3,\"singleChannel\":{\"max\":5,\"set\":[1],\"view\":[1]}},{\"groupInfo\":{\"commands\":[],\"name\":\"\",\"profile\":\"\"},\"id\":4,\"singleChannel\":{\"max\":5,\"set\":[1],\"view\":[1]}},{\"groupInfo\":{\"commands\":[],\"name\":\"\",\"profile\":\"\"},\"id\":5,\"singleChannel\":{\"max\":1,\"set\":[1],\"view\":[1]}}]}]",

 

Also my customer has another issue with that. Associations groups creating by itself. I now managed to update cleaning scene to get rid of unwanted groups.

Please login or register to see this code.

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by jakub.jezek

[petergebruers 1,261]

@jakub.jezek I think I have to disappoint you. I toyed a bit with that idea too. But, a device does not send this association data to the controller, unless the controller requests it. I think only "soft reconfigure" reads out the stored associations. At other times, the API or the BUI just returns cached date (from the last time associations were sent to the device). I am not sure if it is possible to request an update list on a HC, maybe via some undocumented command... Anyway, the script released by Fibaro to fix this, does not read associations, it just overwrites them.

[jakub.jezek 350]

@petergebruers, yes, it only overwrites it. I believe this setting is in some sort of hex file, so Fibaro probably do not want users (even power users) to fool arround that file.

[petergebruers 1,261]

9 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

@petergebruers, yes, it only overwrites it. I believe this setting is in some sort of hex file, so Fibaro probably do not want users (even power users) to fool arround that file.

 

A RaZberry can do it... In expert mode, go to "Device", "Association" then click "Update from Device". On a HC, we have something similar, "Read Configuration", but I think it only retrieves parameters, not associations... That's why I think you hav to do a "soft reconfigure"... But I am not sure.

[Guest andyhud]

Hi Guys

 

So randomly I have had the same problem.

 

I have a Fibaro RGWB controller for my main bathroom lights (RGWB 12v spots). I have the light switch outside wired into IN1 on the RGBW controller

 

The other day Randomly my garden lights would turn on (Single switch relay), my Study light would turn on (Dimmer v1) and a Fan would turn on (using a Z-Wave mains socket) just out the blue. They all came on when the light switch outside the bathroom was turned on. It was driving me nuts! Random associations!!!!

 

I have now just done a complete reset of the RGBW module (using the "Reconfigure Device" button under Advanced) and now the problem is gone but I'm worried it will randomly come back. Did anyone get to the bottom of this?

 

I noticed in the menu these options (where I changed the "Keys" to "Toggle" as its a toggle switch for my bathroom, but the "Association - Settings" says its synced... was/is it anything 

 

Couple of screen grabs attached

 

I'm in the UK.

 

HC2 running 4.150

 

Thanks in advance, this is very weird

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[northyorks 35]

I too have had phantom RGBW behaviours.

 

I have 8 RGBW modules and a handful of times of the last year or so a RGBW will start to sync with another module. So for example lounge leds turned on would trigger kitchen for no reason etc and mimic exact state. Each time this has happened I’ve removed the modules and re-added and messed about until the phantom synchronisation disappears. Nothing clear in the UI to indicate sync.

 

Really annoying and 100% phantom. HC2 not touched prior to such behaviour.

[Guest andyhud]

1 minute ago, northyorks said:

I too have had phantom RGBW behaviours.

 

I have 8 RGBW modules and a handful of times of the last year or so a RGBW will start to sync with another module. So for example lounge leds turned on would trigger kitchen for no reason etc and mimic exact state. Each time this has happened I’ve removed the modules and re-added and messed about until the phantom synchronisation disappears. Nothing clear in the UI to indicate sync.

 

Really annoying and 100% phantom. HC2 not touched prior to such behaviour.

 

Hi Northyorks,

 

Question, is your RGBW controller that randomly associates with other devices have anything hooked upto IN1-4 on the RGBW module like a wall switch?

 

My modules that have nothing on the IN1-4 dont randomly associate with other devices, but the one with a switch in IN1 does decide to randomly associate.

 

And in the advanced settings of the RGBW module (the one with a toggle switch on IN1) I have these set. Notice the bottom one says "brightness synced with other dimmers". There isnt an option to choose "none"!!

 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[northyorks 35]

No I have nothing in any inputs.

[Guest andyhud]

8 minutes ago, northyorks said:

No I have nothing in any inputs.

Damn, that rules that out then I guess.

 

I'm stumped on this one. but bloody annoying!

[rls46 19]

since I reconnected it, I have had two cases of general response slowdown, dead nodes, no answer, etc. No devices have been turned on and off. Only connectivity from the network was recovered when the device was turned off. I have not drawn anything conclusive.

I bought a qubino 0-10v to try, but it seems that it is only included correctly with output 0-10v not with input. When you change parameter 1 to 3,4 or 5 to configure the device as input,  re-inclusion does not complete the inclusion.

Has someone tried this device?
only compatible for 0-10v output?

[rls46 19]

I do not understand this very well

 

NOTE: The above list is valid for the product with a
temperature sensor connected to TS terminal. In case the
sensor is not connected then following command class
is not supported:
COMMAND_CLASS_SENSOR_MULTILEVEL_V7

 

Will I need a temperature probe to activate this class to make it work?

[petergebruers 1,261]

9 hours ago, rls46 said:

Only connectivity from the network was recovered when the device was turned off.

 

Confirmed.

 

You might be interested in a Z-Wave sniffer. It is a very, very technical tool, comes with almost no explanation but it helped me. I own one, and I have helped a few other users who bought one. It did not solve "the menace" but I learned a lot by looking at the logs... I only recommend this because you have a large network and are very much inclined to get and keep your network stable.

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

9 hours ago, rls46 said:

I bought a qubino 0-10v to try, but it seems that it is only included correctly with output 0-10v not with input. When you change parameter 1 to 3,4 or 5 to configure the device as input,  re-inclusion does not complete the inclusion.

 

I don't have one, but I read the manual when I investigated the phantom... It says indeed... change parameter, exclude, wait 30 seconds (why? why 30 seconds? I am not aware of any timing relevant to inclusion and exclusion...). Z-Wave standardizes sensor types, so that is probably why you have to do this. So if you set p1 to 4 it should report as a temperature sensor. At least, that is what I think. Their statement regarding SENSOR class (see below) confuses me. I guess I would try p1 = 5 because they say "5 - 0-10V General purpose sensor".

 

8 hours ago, rls46 said:

Will I need a temperature probe to activate this class to make it work?

 

I do not know. the Fibaro RGBW does not use the SENSOR CLASS, they report 0 - 10 V as dimmer values. The advantage is ... every controller supports a dimmer. Disadvantage... You only get 1% resolution. If the used SENSOR class, they could do almost arbitrary values and resolution. For instance, they could use the ADS resolution, 0 - 1023, so 10 x the resolution of a dimmer.

Edited January 23, 2018 by petergebruers

[rls46 19]

4 hours ago, petergebruers said:

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

purchased, it seems very interesting.

 

4 hours ago, petergebruers said:

Supongo que probaría p1 = 5 porque dicen "5 - 0-10V Sensor de propósito general".

Yes, I followed the instructions, changing the paramenter and waiting for more than 30 seconds. Test parameter 1 with values 3, 4 and 5. None allowed to finish the inclusion, it remains stopped after add node. I bought a temperature probe to test.
With parameter 1, value 0, it is correctly included as dimmer out 10v
in this way, connecting the sensor to I1, changes the dimmer value to on and off.
The sensor I use is actually 0-5v, the dimmer value changes to 0 (off) and 58 (on)
So the device seems to work correctly.

 

[rls46 19]

first tests with qubino 10v

 

With the temperature probe and set parameter 1 to 5, the inclusion ends and shows the channels. I have to try with values 3 and 4, but I think the result will be the same.

 

it does not seem to be supported by fibaro, although the device ends as a configured device, in the interface it is shown as not configured and it shows the duplicated channels. (1.jpg)

 

after inclusion only x.0 (dimmer) and x.0.1 (temperature) are operative.
x.1 (dimmer, no operative, need set association multichannel), x.2 (totally inoperative), x.2.1 (temperature, no operative, need set association multichannel), and x.3 (IN 0-10v, no operative, need set association multichannel).

x.2 it looks like it should be the IN 0-10v sensor, but it is totally inoperative, it always shows 0.

 

x.3 is the input 0-10v but after the inclusion does not change the value, to do that it shows values, it is necessary to assign the group 5 in multichannel to Home Center 2. After this change the sensor already changes the values according to IN 0-10v. (2.jpg). See manual for group uses.

 

I have configured these parameters to test, and the 0-10v response is very smooth and seems correct, no sudden changes and drastic oscillations as I had with RGBW, IN 0-10 seems to work correctly.  (3.jpg)

 

Now I have to solve a problem, the minimum value shows 132, I think it's 1.32v, because the maximum value it shows is 596 and it could be 5.96v because the sensor I'm using is 0-5v, I do not have the tools to check this.  (4.jpg)

 

I have to carefully review the parameters that change according to the manual, to try to solve this and the reports according to the changes of v.

 

I think I could do a VD that shows the values so that it looks nice and hide the devices. 

 

Until fibaro supports the device 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Edited January 23, 2018 by rls46

[rls46 19]

Two weeks after installing qubino 10v, no problem at the moment.

the only drawback is visual, it shows 'not configured'.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Now three days ago I installed a wind direction sensor (many value changes) in the exterior RGBW, where there is also a brightness sensor and a wind speed sensor.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

fingers crossed. 

[rls46 19]

@petergebruers
I received the sniffer, a very useful tool to know how many messages are processed, thanks for the recommendation.

Do you think this is an anomaly?
node 201 is the outer RGBW with 3 inputs 0-10, many continuous messages (5 per second +-) empty with origin hc2 to RGBW, it seems strange.

have you seen something similar?
Will the phantom be arriving?
the rest of the messages seem normal, sensors and measurements, you know that I like to measure things 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

It gave me time to do a little test
if I remove electrical current to RGBW, the messages stop. when returning to give electrical current they return

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by rls46

[tinman 1,025]

sure, that's the data coming from input, the rgbw is sending then updates with values, here how it looks like on real zniffer:

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[petergebruers 1,261]

7 hours ago, rls46 said:

I received the sniffer, a very useful tool to know how many messages are processed, thanks for the recommendation

 

I am glad you like it.

 

7 hours ago, rls46 said:

many continuous messages (5 per second +-)

 

If you mean "a burst of 5 messages in one second" but then with big pauses (10 seconds or more) then I think it is OK. If you mean "it is sending messages continuously at a rate of 5 per second" then that is very high. You'll get collisions with other messages and that causes delays or maybe phantom.

 

7 hours ago, rls46 said:

empty with origin hc2 to RGBW

 

Yes that looks weird but @tinman has a point, this is not "the real tool" and it might be an issue with the sniffer decoder. Unfortunately, the real tool is not available to end-users.

 

The fact that they are empty might be simply a decoding issue, this does not worry me to much. You can try to set your Zniffer to "raw mode" then it might display a bunch of hex code, similar to the output of tinman's tool.

 

But the fact that it says "01 -> 201" is a bit weirder... If the RGBW is reporting, you expect 201 -> 01 and maybe confirmation in the other direction. But in this case, it looks as if the controller is sending data to the RGBW. I am not 100% sure this is an error, but I think it looks weird.

 

In that capture you probably have one real report, from a different sensor. It says 181 -> 01 SensBin which stands for "Sensor Binary Report". Can you confirm which node it is? Careful! NodeId is not DeviceId! It is on the "advanced" page of the device.

 

I no longer use the 0-10V mode, but I'll try to sniff my network today anyway, to see if I get something similar.

 

Do you have polling enabled? Do you send anything to that RGBW?

 

8 hours ago, rls46 said:

Will the phantom be arriving?

 

I honestly do not know... I recommend you enable logging to disk in your terminal program. Unfortunately, it might produce too much data to find the phantom.

But you can use that data for other purposes as well. I recommend you pull that data into an excel sheet then count packet pairs... You might be able to reduce the amount of reporting.