Newly added devices always set with "Device excluded from polling" option

[speedy 64]

Hello everyone.

 

Everytime i add a device (fibaro device or other, it doesn't matter) its always added with the option "Device excluded from polling" option.

Have tried this with 2 HC2 and the result is the same.

I can't see a situation where it is preferred to have this as a default option.

 

Is this a bug or is it intentional behavior? 

 

If it is intentional behaviour Fibaro please change it back to always add devices so that they are included in the global polling queue.

 

Unless I'm missing something?

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by speedy

[fkruis 14]

HI Speed,

 

Z-Wave devices that update their state automatically do not need to be polled.  Also devices that have the option of sending a report on a regular intervals do not need to be polled.

For most of the devices out there polling will not necessary.

 

 

 

[speedy 64]

18 hours ago, fkruis said:

HI Speed,

 

Z-Wave devices that update their state automatically do not need to be polled.  Also devices that have the option of sending a report on a regular intervals do not need to be polled.

For most of the devices out there polling will not necessary.

 

@fkruis thanks for your answer.

 

From my point of view this is not a good behaviour, while i understand why its done this way.

 

What happens if a device stops working or device is removed from the system physically.

What happens if a fuse blows so that all devices doesn't get any power, i want get any notification of communication error or similar until i actually want to use the device.

I can't see any situation where i wouldn't want the HC2 to "double check" my devices.

 

Especially with Fibaro alarm and using Fibaro UBS for alarm devices. Not having a global polling queue can be somewhat unsafe.

I have even been in situations where the UBS was saying that a door was closed but after polling it was open.

(Now this might have been a GUI failure, i did not check the affected device with /docs) but it gave a false indication to the user i any case and polling solved it.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by speedy

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[T.Konopka 8]

Hello,

 

@speedy, what kind of devices are you adding? Sensors or actors?

[speedy 64]

1 hour ago, T.Konopka said:

Hello,

 

@speedy, what kind of devices are you adding? Sensors or actors?

 

Hi @T.Konopka

 

I have added Fibaro dimmers V2 (3.5) and Fibaro UBS sensors (v2.1) in version V4.130 on 3 different systems and that results in "Exclude from polling" option.

Fibaro wallplug is included in polling (V25.25)

Different brand wall plug is excluded from polling.

Adding a Aeon Labs Sirens, that device gets included in the global polling queue.

 

So it seems that its different depending on device.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by speedy

[T.Konopka 8]

I know what happens.

All devices that do not have to be polled by the system are excluded from polling when added. A user can decide whether to include the device into polling or not.

If the device is automatically excluded from polling when added to the system, then the polling is not a must for the device.

[speedy 64]

2 hours ago, T.Konopka said:

All devices that do not have to be polled by the system are excluded from polling when added.

If the device is automatically excluded from polling when added to the system, then the polling is not a must for the device.

 

What are the criteria for being polled and not?

Why does a Fibaro wall plug need to be polled but not a dimmer or UBS?

 

If i could make a feature request, it would be very handy to choose before adding the device if it should be included in the global polling queue or not.

If not checked then its added to the system with the default settings.

Like a checkbox under the options: "Device located far away from HC", NWI and security mode.

Edited July 18, 2017 by speedy

[AutoFrank 372]

2 hours ago, T.Konopka said:

If the device is automatically excluded from polling when added to the system, then the polling is not a must for the device.

 

Thanks @T.Konopka

Does this mean that if polling is enabled then it is placing an unnecessary load on the system

 

If it doesn't need polling then there is no advantage in enabling polling on the device ?

[wienog 107]

21 hours ago, AutoFrank said:

 

Thanks @T.Konopka

Does this mean that if polling is enabled then it is placing an unnecessary load on the system

 

If it doesn't need polling then there is no advantage in enabling polling on the device ?

Absolutely !

I have more than hundred physical devices and only one of them is polled: the only roller shutter that every now and then is activated manually without intervention of the HC2. Polling, especially polling at fast rates, has a major impact on z-wave traffic and can slow down your system considerably.

Good news is that almost no devices at all still need that polling.

[T.Konopka 8]

I think that the matter has been explained thoroughly

[Momos 102]

interesting topic.

I tried some time ago to disable polling on almost all devices. Seemed to work very well but: sometimes a device changed status and the interface didn't refresh, neither on the PC or on the IPad.  So when looking at the interface the roller shutter seemed to be opened but in reality it was closed. Thought it was due to the polling stuff and so i enabled polling again.

But to this day from time to time some roller shutters behave the same way, interface is not updating but roller changed state.

 

Almost all my devices are fibaro ones, so can anyone elaborate on which devices should absolutely have polling and which can do without please?

Also, is there a way to enable/disable polling through LUA on a set of devices of same type ?

 

Thank you 

[wienog 107]

22 hours ago, Momos said:

iAlmost all my devices are fibaro ones, so can anyone elaborate on which devices should absolutely have polling and which can do without please?

Also, is there a way to enable/disable polling through LUA on a set of devices of same type ?

Simply said: if the device communicates it's status at every change then polling is not necessary. You can test that yourself: if you switch your light on (assuming that there is a z-wave switch also connected to the light behind the mechanical/manual switch) so, if you switch your light on MANUALLY (meaning by actually changing the position of the mechanical switch) and you see that the status on your mobile device or web-interface changes to "ON", then there is no need to poll this device. same for roller shutters, wall plugs etc. The reason I poll one of my roller shutters is because it doesn't communicate it's change in position to the HC2 when you activate it manually. So, the HC2 'thinks' the roller is still closed while you opened it a few minutes ago. When you have a scene that will turn off the lights in that room when the roller shutter is opened, it will not be triggered and the lights will stay on, consuming energy for nothing. In that case you need to poll the device, then it will report it's actual status (open, half open, 30 % open...) to the HC2 and the HC2 will know what to do next, if anything.

[Momos 102]

Thank you.  What about disabling/enabling polling through LUA ?

 

 

[speedy 64]

On 7/19/2017 at 3:36 PM, Momos said:

interesting topic.

I tried some time ago to disable polling on almost all devices. Seemed to work very well but: sometimes a device changed status and the interface didn't refresh, neither on the PC or on the IPad.  So when looking at the interface the roller shutter seemed to be opened but in reality it was closed.

Ive had the same experience but with Fibaro UBS devices connected to an alarm system.

So what happened was that motion sensors connected to HC2 was not displaying the correct status.

 

4 hours ago, wienog said:

Simply said: if the device communicates it's status at every change then polling is not necessary. 

While i understand / agree, and in theory it should work this way, i have been in situations where status was not updated without polling.

 

And especially for alarms, if the voltage is cut from UBS devices then it won't send the information, you won't get any notification from the system because without polling there is no notification.

And if a device breaks you won't get any notification about this ether.

 

If a dimmer communication breaks or is out of reach, that won't show as there is no polling, if a fuse is out then you think all your lights work until you control the device with app.

With polling enabled, none of these problem is there.

 

So while i understand the usage, it brings with it some problems and for me, results in less information from the devices and the actual status of the system.

 

For me i set a polling interval of double the recommended in the GUI.

My biggest customer system uses 122 devices and is never been slow with polling enabled (and adjusted to the size of the system).

440 sec recommended, 700 sec for the setting.

 

Why is this not updated automaticcly according to number of devices and number of the vices with polling enabled?

That would be great.

 

Why does a Fibaro wallplug need to be polled but not dimmers or UBS?

 

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by speedy

[Momos 102]

1 hour ago, speedy said:

If a dimmer communication breaks or is out of reach, that won't show as there is no polling, if a fuse is out then you think all your lights work until you control the device with app.

With polling enabled, none of these problem is there.

 

this is the main issue with not having polling enabled.  from time to time it happens that a device goes dead even if it is 5 meters from HC2. Without polling there would be no way for the gateway to mark it as dead and send a notification.

 

Or i am dead wrong ?!

[speedy 64]

37 minutes ago, Momos said:

 

this is the main issue with not having polling enabled.  from time to time it happens that a device goes dead even if it is 5 meters from HC2. Without polling there would be no way for the gateway to mark it as dead and send a notification.

 

Or i am dead wrong ?!

 

No i think you are right.

Ive tried it with a dimmer V2 without polling.

After 2 days of not polling it still showed as its working fine even though it was disconnected.

 

And again, this with Fibaro Alarm and Fibaro UBS sensors is very insecure.

If the powersupply to the alarmsensors fail well then no alarm will go off and you will never know that there is a problem.

For me i can't see a situation where i would want a device not to be polled.

 

@wienog Do you know or have personal experience from this? Have there been many situations where polling is clogging up the system?

The only reason for this to happen in my mind is that the global polling interval is not increased automatically depending of devices that require polling.

 

*i understand that i can enable polling, but as said, i can't think of a situation where polling should be disabled.

In my mind, there are more drawbacks than advantages, if you adjust your polling to match the number of devices you have.

 

[speedy 64]

@T.Konopka

 

I just had an issue with polling.

My HC2 froze this night and after a reboot with the power button the wrech was blinking, indicating a fault, after a second reboot the HC2 started normally.

When the HC2 started all my lights in the GUI (web and phone)  was indicating OFF but almost all devices where ON.

 

After checking the problem i found that many (but not all) devices are now set to "Excluded from polling"!?

I use V4.130 and only Fibaro devices (V2 dimmers) for controlling lights.

RGBW devices also are now set to "Excluded from polling".

 

Is there any explanation for this behaviour?

Edited July 26, 2017 by speedy

[T.Konopka 8]

Hello,

 

33 minutes ago, speedy said:

After checking the problem i found that many (but not all) devices are now set to "Excluded from polling"!?

I use V4.130 and only Fibaro devices (V2 dimmers) for controlling lights.

RGBW devices also are now set to "Excluded from polling".

Polling is not necessary for these devices. You, as a user, can decide whether you want the device to be polled or not.

 

This post by @wienog explains the subject. There is nothing wrong with the system.

On 19.07.2017 at 0:59 PM, wienog said:

I have more than hundred physical devices and only one of them is polled: the only roller shutter that every now and then is activated manually without intervention of the HC2. Polling, especially polling at fast rates, has a major impact on z-wave traffic and can slow down your system considerably.

 

I apologize but I do not know what I can explain more and what answer you are expecting.

[wienog 107]

On 20-7-2017 at 9:34 PM, speedy said:

*i understand that i can enable polling, but as said, i can't think of a situation where polling should be disabled.

In my mind, there are more drawbacks than advantages, if you adjust your polling to match the number of devices you have.

 

I fear that is exactly where you are wrong: there USED to be an advantage with polling years ago with older z-wave devices because they didn't report back automatically their new status when this status was changed, either manually or by the HC2. With the newer devices there is an immediate feedback to the HC2 to signal the new status. So, HC2 KNOWS already what the status of the device is and therefore there is absolutely no reason to poll these devices. It's like a conversation between HC2 and device A: Device A is changed from 'off' to 'on' and immediately calls the HC2 and says "Hi, HC2, i'm now ON". When you poll this device the HC2 will contact te device some seconds or minutes later (depending on the polling rate you have set) and ask "Hi, Device A, what is your status" ? to which Device A will say "Err... HC2, I'm ON, remember, I told you already so 5 minutes ago and I will tell you again when my status changes again, so don't bother me with your questions please".

CONCLUSION: for all newer devices polling is USELESS and excluding devices from polling is a reasonable and wise decision which will only benefit the functioning of your system, because a lot of useless talking between HC2 and devices will be stopped.

[Momos 102]

@wienog Please clarify something for me if possible.

 

Example: One device, let's say a fibaro double relay used for irrigation in the garden (and i have 5 of those for 10 water circuits), for some reason loses communication with the HC2. If polling is enabled then HC2 will mark it as dead right ? 

I have scene that checks for dead devices periodically and notifies me if any device is marked dead. If i receive a notification, i enter the fibaro app and force communication for that device and voila - it starts to work again so my garden still gets the needed water.

 

What happens if i disable polling on that device in the same scenario as above ? Will the device still get marked as dead somehow or it will just not work and i won't have any ideea it is not working, hence upon my return home a week later i find parts of my garden dead ?!

 

Thank you