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Newly added devices always set with "Device excluded from polling" option


speedy

Question

Hello everyone.

 

Everytime i add a device (fibaro device or other, it doesn't matter) its always added with the option "Device excluded from polling" option.

Have tried this with 2 HC2 and the result is the same.

I can't see a situation where it is preferred to have this as a default option.

 

Is this a bug or is it intentional behavior? 

 

If it is intentional behaviour Fibaro please change it back to always add devices so that they are included in the global polling queue.

 

Unless I'm missing something?

 

Edited by speedy
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  • 6 hours ago, T.Konopka said:

    Hello,

     

    Polling is not necessary for these devices. You, as a user, can decide whether you want the device to be polled or not.

    This post by @wienog explains the subject. There is nothing wrong with the system.

    I apologize but I do not know what I can explain more and what answer you are expecting.

    Hi @T.Konopka.

    I understand that this is an option, but that was not what i was asking about.

     

    What happened is that all devices that where set to "Global polling" are now set to "Excluded from polling" without me doing anything.

    The HC2 froze and after 2 reboots started, and after that many devices where set to "Excluded from polling", i did not do that, the HC2 did that by itself.

     

    Newley added devices are included without polling, i understand but this was on devices already in the system, i did not change this, the HC2 did.

     

    Something is wrong here, a bug or other, because the devices change by them self to "Excluded from polling".

     

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  • 6 hours ago, wienog said:

     

    I fear that is exactly where you are wrong: there USED to be an advantage with polling years ago with older z-wave devices because they didn't report back automatically their new status when this status was changed, either manually or by the HC2. With the newer devices there is an immediate feedback to the HC2 to signal the new status. So, HC2 KNOWS already what the status of the device is and therefore there is absolutely no reason to poll these devices.

    Sorry but you are wrong in my opinion. 

    In a perfect world this happens but not in this world :-) 

    Power goes down to UBS devices = No way of knowing that.

    Fuse blown to a device, no way of telling.

    Started my HC2 today after a freeze all devices showed OFF in GUI but devices where ON. (Polling have turned off somehow)

     

    6 hours ago, wienog said:

     

    It's like a conversation between HC2 and device A: Device A is changed from 'off' to 'on' and immediately calls the HC2 and says "Hi, HC2, i'm now ON". When you poll this device the HC2 will contact te device some seconds or minutes later (depending on the polling rate you have set) and ask "Hi, Device A, what is your status" ? to which Device A will say "Err... HC2, I'm ON, remember, I told you already so 5 minutes ago and I will tell you again when my status changes again, so don't bother me with your questions please".

    Yes, I'm well aware how it works, this is not the issue/problem.

    We have a system that can do so much, why not let it check our devices for faults as it should be.

     

    6 hours ago, wienog said:

    CONCLUSION: for all newer devices polling is USELESS and excluding devices from polling is a reasonable and wise decision which will only benefit the functioning of your system, because a lot of useless talking between HC2 and devices will be stopped.

    Well, agree to disagree.

    Last week a customer turned off his UPS that gives power to 15 motion detectors that uses Fibaro UBS devices.

    He thought that when the UPS is connected to the power outlet then the UPS could be turned off and still work...

    What happened was that all of his 15 motion sensors now stopped working, when he engaged Fibaro alarm it all looked fine, all devices have no motion detected BUT they don't work!

    After a while he saw the devices showed "No connection" and called me asking "Whats wrong with the system?"

    I could go on with devices that control heat cables mounted on water pipes controlled by an external temp gauge, blown fuse, fault etc without polling = exploded water pipes 

     

    Without polling, its impossible to know i a devices has been disconnected, not working, out of range or similar.

    And polling doesn't hardly use any of the system.

    You have 122 devices, set global polling to 1220 sec thats 1 poll every 10 seconds. Almost no use of the total system doing that.

    And with that come 100% certainty that everything is connected, working and nothing is removed, out of range, broken etc and the correct status i updated in the GUI.

     

    We all have our different experiences dealing with different HC2 systems, for me, never ever a system without polling.

     

    So in the end, you say useless, i say system critical :-)  

     

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    24 minutes ago, speedy said:

    So in the end, you say useless, i say system critical :-)

     

    So let's agree to disagree although we can not be both right. I must admit I almost never have dead nodes but sometimes (once a year ?) I do have them, even with polling completely turned off, so the HC2 has other ways to know if a device is working or not. If the HC2 sends a command and doesn't get feedback, this is one situation when the node could be declared 'dead' even without polling.

    Only thing I can say is that the CPU-usage goes up significantly when I enable polling and response to Fibaro motion sensors , for instance, takes sometimes more than 10 seconds. With polling shut off the response is (almost) immediate.

    But I do NOT say: NEVER poll... as I explained before I have some older roller shutters that don't report to the HC2 when you activate them manually. These guys I poll because sometimes the HC2 needs to know about them. I can understand that there are some other, more critical, devices that you would want to be certain to have information about but I recommend to be very selective in activating polling and limit it to an absolute minimum.

     

     

    Edited by wienog
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    Hello,

     

    20 hours ago, Momos said:

    What happens if i disable polling on that device in the same scenario as above ? Will the device still get marked as dead somehow or it will just not work and i won't have any ideea it is not working, hence upon my return home a week later i find parts of my garden dead ?!

    The module will be marked as dead unless you unticked the option in the device's settings. How will it be marked as dead? HC2 tries up to 3 times to communicate with a device when you send any command. If after these 3 times a device will not respond to the command it will be marked as dead. It does not depend if you try to use a device directly or via a scene. If it will not respond it will be marked as dead.

     

    15 hours ago, speedy said:

    Newley added devices are included without polling, i understand but this was on devices already in the system, i did not change this, the HC2 did

    Well, it is impossible as this option was strictly introduced only for newly added devices. It did not influence any devices added before. It was tested and I am 100% that the devices could not have been automatically excluded from polling as it was not dedicated to change the status of already added devices.

     

    Guys, the only thing about this issue is that when you add a device you have to personally decide whether you want the device to be polled or not.

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    1 minute ago, T.Konopka said:

    Guys, the only thing about this issue is that when you add a device you have to personally decide whether you want the device to be polled or not.

     

    Thanks @T.Konopka, your explanation is helping demystify this topic an most welcome..

     

    Two ask's if I may..

    Could you give a scenario where  a user may benefit/need to enable polling for a device that doesn't require it by default?

    Would it be possible to get a list (or point me to the information) of all the fibaro devices (relay gen 1 and gen , dimmer 1 & 2, UBS, etc) and whether polling is required or not ?

     

    I have a lot of devices all ready installed and don't want to have to exclude/re-include to understand the derfault polling settings

     

    _f

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    For sake of completeness, two things:

     

    @tinmanshared code to poll whenever you want:

     

     

    Second. If you want super robust communication and diagnosis, I can recommend this post written by me:

     

    The script demonstrates what info you can use to determine the state of a device, if it is dead, communication or OK. If you have a wallplug or a device that you can power on/off, toy with the script. You will understand more from doing that than when I write a 1000 words here.

     

    It is not a complete solution... I think I cannot write a solution that is good enough for general use. You have to ask yourself: if a device is dead, how many times do I want to retry? If it still fails, do I send a mail? Do I trust the status? Do I repeat this and how many mails do I want to send? It is up to you... I can help if you want but maybe post your request as a new topic.

    Edited by petergebruers
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  • On 7/26/2017 at 9:13 PM, wienog said:

     

    So let's agree to disagree although we can not be both right.

    Well i think we both can be right :-) 

    For your usage case, polling is not necessary for you.

    For my usage case it is.

     

     

    Quote

    I must admit I almost never have dead nodes but sometimes (once a year ?) I do have them, even with polling completely turned off, so the HC2 has other ways to know if a device is working or not. If the HC2 sends a command and doesn't get feedback, this is one situation when the node could be declared 'dead' even without polling.

    Absolutely, this is fine with devices that are controlled by scenes etc, but for "solid state" devices as alarms, sensors etc that doesn't happen. It just stops reporting to the HC2 so you never know if anything is wrong or working properly.

     

    Quote

    Only thing I can say is that the CPU-usage goes up significantly when I enable polling and response to Fibaro motion sensors , for instance, takes sometimes more than 10 seconds. With polling shut off the response is (almost) immediate.

    If this is the case then something is wrong with your system.

    With the biggest system i have installed, a house with 3 floors (122 devices) they use Fibaro motion sensors in every room (13 rooms) with different scenes depending on time of day so almost 70 scenes connected to the 13 sensors. 

    I have never had this problem (delay or CPU usage) with polling enabled on every single device in the house, so something is not working right with your system.

    The HC2 is located in the basement.

     

    If anything, what floods the system is the reporting of Lux and temp reading from all the motion sensors, but even then there is no slowdown.

     

    Quote

     I can understand that there are some other, more critical, devices that you would want to be certain to have information about but I recommend to be very selective in activating polling and limit it to an absolute minimum.

    I guess this is because of the fact that your system gets slow with delays and high cpu usage when using motion detectors and/or polling.

    Thats why i asked about it before, your view on not polling devices is affected by the slowdown and problems you experience with polling enabled.

     

    Is this an issue that multiple users have? Is that the reason it was implemented to "exclude" polling as a default?

    I understad that this might have been an issue before as the polling rate is not automatically changed depending on the number of devices in the system.

    Now we get a notification if the polling is set to low, thats great, but an automatic change to polling rate is better, with the option to disable the automatic setting of course for more power users.

     

    A well, we understand each other :-) , ill just have to make one more setting on every device i include in systems in the future.

     

    But a setting while including devices "Include in global polling queue" would be a great addition when including devices (for me) as we all have different opinions.

     

     

     

     

     

    10 hours ago, T.Konopka said:

    Well, it is impossible as this option was strictly introduced only for newly added devices. It did not influence any devices added before. It was tested and I am 100% that the devices could not have been automatically excluded from polling as it was not dedicated to change the status of already added devices.

    Hi, thanks again for the reply, maybe something wierd happened as a one off or i have missed something, that is also a very real option :-) 

    Is there a api request for the polling setting for devices?

     

    Quote

    Guys, the only thing about this issue is that when you add a device you have to personally decide whether you want the device to be polled or not.

    Feature request:

    Is there a possibility to add the option of "Add device to the global polling queue"  when adding devices via the web GUI?

    This can be unchecked as default, but it would be a very nice addition so we can choose this in the inclusion pahse.

     

     

    Edited by speedy
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  • @petergebruers

    Thanks for the additional topics, i learnt new things reading through it all!

     

    A polling script might be a way to go, get all of the polling done in an instant and then leave the airwaves free to do whatever.

    Set it to run at an interval instead of having polling running spread out over a period of time, all of the time.

     

    Is there a way to see the RF usage of the HC2?

    We have CPU usage but that's not relevant to RF load, then the polling could be done during low RF periods or stopped if RF usage is high.

     

     

    Edited by speedy
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    Hello,

     

    23 hours ago, AutoFrank said:

    Could you give a scenario where  a user may benefit/need to enable polling for a device that doesn't require it by default?

    Disabled polling = less Z-Wave traffic, because the devices report by themselves so there is no need to poll them.

    Enabled polling = up to date status from the devices that do not report by themselves.

     

    23 hours ago, AutoFrank said:

    Would it be possible to get a list (or point me to the information) of all the fibaro devices (relay gen 1 and gen , dimmer 1 & 2, UBS, etc) and whether polling is required or not ?

    Well, there is no such list but:

    - all FIBARO actors report by themselves so there is no particular need to enable polling, but if a user wishes to then it's all right

    - all FIBARO sensors may require polling, it depends on user's idea about how one wants to use them

    - 3rd parties actors - depends on a device itself, if it reports the status then polling isn't necessary, otherwise polling should be enabled

    - 3rd parties sensors - same story

    - all controllers (Keyfob, Swipe, Button) - these devices should be polled as they are not included in extending Z-Wave signal and may be treated as dead without polling

     

    I hope that this clarifies the subject a bit :)

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    2 hours ago, T.Konopka said:

    Well, there is no such list but:

    - all FIBARO actors report by themselves so there is no particular need to enable polling, but if a user wishes to then it's all right

    - all FIBARO sensors may require polling, it depends on user's idea about how one wants to use them

    - 3rd parties actors - depends on a device itself, if it reports the status then polling isn't necessary, otherwise polling should be enabled

    - 3rd parties sensors - same story

    - all controllers (Keyfob, Swipe, Button) - these devices should be polled as they are not included in extending Z-Wave signal and may be treated as dead without polling

     

     

    Thank you for provided details :)  However some things do not add up:  

    - Fibaro Keyfob does not have a polling option in the configuration page.  Just a wake up interval which is set to 0 by default. This 0 represents automatic wake up disabled.

    - Fibaro Sensors also do not have any polling option in the conf page. Again only wake up interval.

    As far as i know there is no polling for sensors / keyfob and such.  They just send reports at the set wakeup interval. 

     

    Regards

     

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    @Momos, yes you are right ;) I hope that it is not confusing. Wake up interval for sensors can be interpreted similarly to polling interval for actors.

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  • @T.Konopka

    Thanks for your replies in this thread.

     

    About my devices that "changed" setting to "exclude from polling"

    The reason was that i updated the firmware, then i did a "soft reconfigure".

     

    When you do a "soft reconfigure" the devices goes back to the setting "Exclude from Global polling".

    So now i know why the device setting changed.

     

    Shouldn't all settings be the same when using "Soft reconfigure" including the polling setting?

     

     

    On 7/28/2017 at 11:15 AM, T.Konopka said:

    Well, there is no such list but:

    - all FIBARO actors report by themselves so there is no particular need to enable polling, but if a user wishes to then it's all right

     

    The Fibaro wall plug is an actor but when i include that device its included the global polling queue by default.

    What is the reason that this actor is included in the global polling queue? 

    Edited by speedy
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