How to put a Single switch 2 in parallel with a latching relay

[Frankhermie 0]

This is my last attempt to find an answer for a problem that keeps me busy for some months now. 

So, please Fibaro guru help me before i'm throw away everything. 

 

I want to switch one light on and off. This light has multiple push switches. Not standard On/Off switches, but switches that give an impulse to the EPN 520. And this relais is turning the lamp on and off.  I want all this being handled remotely by a Single switch 2 and keep of course the other switches. (see attached Schema). 

 

I already saw an item on this to replace EPN520 completely, but this is not the target. 

 

I already tried the following without any succes:  in both cases the Single Switch 2 is included well ( i can hear him ticking). I also changed parameter 20 from 2 to 1. 

 

1:

Seperate power wires connected to L and N to power the Single switch 2

I Connected the Incoming wire (Live wire) from the puls switch to the second left L on the Single switch 2

Connected the outgoing wire from the puls to the S1 on the Single switch 2

--> Normally puls switches are working as before. No impact remotely.

2: 

Seperate power wires connected to L and N to power the Single switch 2

I Connected the Incoming wire (Live wire) from the puls switch to S1 on the Single switch 2

And connected the outgoing wire from the puls to the Q on the Single switch 2

--> Normal puls switches don't work anymore. Can change remotely, but once on stays on. 

 

Can someone give me the correct Scheme? 

Do I have to do this in another way? Relay switch? Dimmer 2? ( I do not want to dim the lights!!)

 

Help !!!!!!!

 

 

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Edited December 1, 2017 by Frankhermie
small change

[kunoch 27]

@petergebruers: laws and regulations do not have to be understood, they are the way they are if it makes sense or not

@Frankhermie: here is my proposal, but you need the double switch 2 or any other switch being able to measure the power consumption on at least one channel.

Here the intention of the connections (might be incorrect, as I do not have a double switch 2 available). As all is connected on the 'primary side' of the EPN520, the galvanic isolation with the two contacts is still in place.

S2 and Q2 provide the power to the EPN520. Maybe the S2 connection is not needed and the configuration parameters can be set to make the Q2 always closed.

Your momentary switches are connected to S1 and Q1 is configured to provide a pulse of e.g. 1 Sec. This will then change the state of the EPN520.

What you would need is a scene for the 'remote control' of the double switch as this scene would need to check the power consumption first before deciding what to do. If the power consumption is 0 W (or below 1W), the light is off (I assume the EPN520 has no power consumption when in stable state, the step relays I have are like this and only consume power when the output state is changed). If the power consumption is e.g. bigger than 10W (depending on the connected light bulb), the light is on. You might need a delay as well due to the power update rate.

I think it should work, but I can not test as I do not have such a switch available.

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Reading some more in the manual for the double switch:

L to S2 connection might be needed as you can only configure both switches as momentary (Switch type), so as long as S2 is L the Q2 is closed and Q1 is only closed as long as S1 is closed (triggering the EPN520)

Your scene to provide the input on S1 would have to make sure the S1 is activated and then e.g. after 1 sec deactivated.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by kunoch

[jack.daniels 103]

Cool idea but anyway, The current switch position will be unknown (ON or OFF)

The best would be to use 2 x SS2 without EPN: first latching the L goes to lamp, second latching N goes to lamp. Current FW allows to group both as masterslave (tho one goes to L will measure power)

Edited December 2, 2017 by jack.daniels

[Frankhermie 0]

Thx everyone for the advise. No time to test today. Will try to do this tomorrow afternoon..

 

[jack.daniels 103]

Your problem will be solved, I am sure

I have worth sitution: there are no N wires in 2 of my switches i want to install relays

And load not allows to use dimmer 2 (its ~500-600W)

[kunoch 27]

@jack.daniels: the state is known indirectly thru the power consumption. If there is power consumption the light is ON, if there is none the light is OFF (or the light-bulb blown). This is the reason why Q2 is feeding the EPN520.

Does that make sense?

Are you sure the two L inputs on the SS2 are totally independent of each other? So also N can be fed to be provided (switched) to the Q output? So, the left L is for the SS2 internal power supply and the right L is for the Q?

Edited December 3, 2017 by kunoch

[jack.daniels 103]

3 hours ago, kunoch said:

Are you sure the two L inputs on the SS2 are totally independent of each other?

It was said in documents, SS2 can handle any load voltage, so I assume it is

[petergebruers 1,268]

4 hours ago, kunoch said:

Are you sure the two L inputs on the SS2 are totally independent of each other? So also N can be fed to be provided (switched) to the Q output? So, the left L is for the SS2 internal power supply and the right L is for the Q?

 

22 minutes ago, jack.daniels said:

It was said in documents, SS2 can handle any load voltage, so I assume it is

 

What is an SS2?

[jack.daniels 103]

Its Single Switch 2  

[petergebruers 1,268]

28 minutes ago, jack.daniels said:

Its Single Switch 2  

 

So that is the FGS-213 aka "Switch 2". The FGS-213 does have 2 "L pins" and they are connected internally (shorted). It is a convenient way to connect a switch. But you do not have to believe me, use an ohm meter between L and L. BTW I own a FGS-213, I know it is 0 ohm. I'd say, when an electrician uses the same symbol twice, he means "it is the same".

 

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I think you are referring to the  FGS-222 or FGS-212, the older relay (aka "Relay Switch"). But I do not see two L inputs on that module:

 

 

There is "IN" and "L". The IN is an unconnected relay contact, so you can indeed connect IN to any potential you want, though connection it to ELV circuits is potentially dangerous, not recommended and also might be illegal.

 

FGS-213 and FGS-223 do not have this IN pin. So it is less flexible than the previous generation...

 

I am sure this is what you meant right from the start. But I would like to point out the difference for forum members that did not read through the whole topic and might be confused because of the different connections on those modules!

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by petergebruers

[jack.daniels 103]

26 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

FGS-213 and FGS-223 do not have this IN pin.

Yes! You are absolutely right! I was mess it with Dimmer 2 - this one has input

[petergebruers 1,268]

Just now, jack.daniels said:

Yes! You are absolutely right! I was mess it with Dimmer 2 - this one has input

 

No problem, it's confusing with all those numbers "2" and "3"... Dimmer 2 (and 1) is a special case because it can "steal" power (voltage) from the load. As you pointed out, it can be used in 2-wire setup which is rather unusual. But still certain restrictions apply, it does not solve all issues.

[Frankhermie 0]

OK,  as a newbie!!!,  what schedule should i test now? The one from kunoch with the double switch 2  because the one fromJack Daniels is not compliant with the Belgian regulation.