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Migration from fibaro HC2 to HC3


michalppp
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I do not see how your question fits in this topic, titled "Migration from fibaro HC2 to HC3", so I'll keep it short, but your questions deserve more attention so why not turn them into full topics?

 

My HC2 is 7 years old, but HC2 is still being sold so what can I say... It depends a lot on when you bought it I suppose? I haven't had issues with my 90 physical node network since 2016, that is 4 years of stable performance...

 

When you buy one know... that is a different story.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

I'm not sure, that the HC2 is during this period the priority #1 for support

There are more HC2 users than HC3 users, they cannot neglect the majority, that would be suicide. Anecdotal: last week I reported an issue and yesterday support cleaned up my database. Normal response imho.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

it seems, they internally have lot of "marketdroids", but short of programmers

How many marketdroids and how many programmers, engineers and technically skilled people are working at Fibaro?

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

now all programming forces are focused on new product

I understand your concern but yes, why wouldn't they focus on the new product, at least for the next few months or maybe longer? HC3 like HC2 is a complex product... You want HC3 to fail? Who would benefit from that? Only time will tell how they can balance HC3 versus HC2.

 

But I make no illusion, at the moment, firmware "V5" is not planned to be ported to HC2. But... Maybe ask them directly.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

Is HC2 after this period a "stable" product (i'm not talking about smaller bugs, but just about big ones.. or even a commercially promised features, which ones are not implemented/rolled back now)

I never quite listened to the marketing so I don't remember what was promised. Can you start a new topic with a list of all your wishes for HC2 and broken promises? Sounds like a good idea to remind Fibaro of broken promises.

 

What is a "stable product" in the context of Home Automation? KNX? Again please start a new topic because this one is titled "Migration from fibaro HC2 to HC3". I am sure you'll get plenty of feedback. It is an excellent idea to talk about that, I've already mentioned "Sonos" in this context.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

What's happening after the end of support period with "The Cloud" support? Right now HC2 requires[1] cloud to work.

You can always install "Home Assistant" and Integrate HC2, it uses a local connection and admin password. It exposes devices and scenes so you can use HASS client or web browser on your phone. Even better: you can build your own interface...

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One thing, that is not mention in changelog. Icons of devices and Rooms are transfered too.

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No. Definitely no "smooth migration". Not like you could simply (for example) backup HC2 then restore on HC3. Not available and not plannend and very likely won't happen...

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  • Thank you for the quick reply. Unfortunately it means to me to disassemble the whole my house and again produce more than 100 scenes. I really do not understand that Fibaro does not

    count something like this. Great disappointment for me.

     

     

     

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    Please don't shoot the messenger, I am an end-user like you. There are posts on this forum as to why this "is what it is". Basically, a combination of technical difficulties in getting Z-Wava data from different generations of Z-Wave controller chips + different concept of "Quick Apps" and "Scenes" on HC3 which offer new possibilities and better performance and stability. I am not defending this decision, I am merely pointing out the facts.

     

    30 minutes ago, Sjakie said:

    I feel myself as customer of Fibaro abandon by Fibaro!!!

    I think I understand what you are saying... Like you expected the thing called HC3 to simply update your HC2 by running some wizard.

    I can tell you, as a beta tester, I was surprised at first too!

     

    Not sure if "abandon" is a bit of a strong wording...  Fibaro has said they will support HC2 for at least 2 years.

    Like Fibaro App, HC3 will get steady releases over time, but I think (based on their own arguments) a really easy migration won't be available ever... I am not a Fibaro employee, I do not know their roadmap. But there are plans to enable gateway connections (HC3-HC2). And more, but it is too soon to talk about that.

     

    9 minutes ago, michalppp said:

    disassemble the whole my house and again produce more than 100 scenes

    Not sure if you need to "disassemble" everything, many Fibaro devices support exclusion/inclusion via S1, check the manual.

    Because you have to rethink scene and VDs, you might actually want to move only parts of your network, and not everything at once.

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  • Thank you very much Peter. I'm sorry, I'm sure you're just trying to help.

     

    I didn't know that it is possible, I'll look at it.

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    Peter I dont shoot you!! Btw mostly I read with interest your posts.

    Let say different in the time Windows was switching from 3.0 or 5.0into Windows 95 it was complete different.

    In that time hard and software developed very fast and on a different way.

    In my opinion this is not the point at this time!

    For me the choice was made by Fibaro that is why I made that statement being abandoned!

    What is two years as support??

    Supposed it was much easier to switch to HC3 I should/would consider to take that step.

    For now I refuse and will look what other way is possible.

    Certainly they will do but never state WHEN they do!

    Still a happy camper with my HC2,

    //Sjakie

     

     

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    Sorry Peter, but in this case you simply get what you pay for. 

    I do not know how often I said this before in this forum and in others. With Fibaro/Nice home automatisation you buy toys for big boys but not a reliable system for home automatisation. 

    No global player could afford such a method of development in our days anymore. Look at KNX, Loxone. Such companies would not dare to leave their customers standing in the cold rain. But those companies ask certainly much more money for their goods. 

    Fibaro/Nice will supprt HC2 for another two years you write. Great! And then? What happens afterwards? I have a house equipped with ca.140 Fibaro/Nice modules, plus uncounted VDs and scenes. And i will have to start from the beginning again if I have to change the Homecenter? I did not write want to  I wrote have to ...

    Will the smart guys from Fibaro/Nice come over to do the job? Just for a dance and a dime? I doubt that.

    A system upgrade with no possibility for migration is poor - very poor. No matter why it ist not possible.  

    Customers will loose trust in the company. Company will loose customers in long term. 

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    akatar @

    Of course I can use an other system. And that will happen sooner or later. But it will take a lot of time and learning again. 

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  • Inquirer
  • As I play with HC3 now, so far I have not found any reason to replace HC2 with HC3. Perhaps only the speed of response.  But i have only three devices there and it was hc2 also fast.  When I introduce myself how much work I would expect, I will stay with HC2.

     

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    Guys, the wrong expectations lead to disappointments.

    Expecting HC3 being evolved HC2 may be a wrong expectation.

    It may just be another type of product expanding Fibaro's portfolio.

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    I would understand it if the programming was done from scratch and then things like assistants for assistance or finished scenes were implanted to make it easier for the user.

    But in the end you get new sausages in old tubes.

    You can see it on the Hue and Sonos plug-ins, exactly the same *abuse* as on the HC2.

    Instead of looking at the things developed in the forum and implementing them (with the agreement of the developers) - but no ?

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    I dont think that they used hc2 4.570 etc and developed it to hc3 software. If you check the scenes then even Lua is completely different. I noticed that my comfortclick connection over hc2 API also work on hc3, this seems to be quite same. 

     

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    The most scary thing of this all is, and then we have HC4. What Then. Again the same thing that we have now with HC3. And when is this. 3 years 8 years.....

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    It's technology, things change - always. The HC2 is very old, it was bound to happen someday that a new version would come. It is difficult to uphold and maintain support for old hardware. The hardware from the component builders probably does not have support, and thus Fibaro can't maintain support. One could argue about the migration bit... But I do understand why Fibaro could not do that. Having to support a transfer of a multitude of different hardware devices - many of them not from Fibaro. Testing them with different firmware versions, different HC2 versions... The costs and the complications would be enormous.

     

    I will build new scenes/devices room for room, mostly, from my HC2 to HC3. Personally I look forward to the development and new features for HC3. The new hardware gives Fibaro more legroom to improve the HC3.

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    Inproving thecnology that is great, i'm for it. Looking forward the "new" things to try..yes but my wife sees me already to reset from scratch again. the problem is that the last two years we had much problems. I did serval reset and now for a year everhing works great. Migration is the big buttle neck for "my wife". But we will see. meaby the 700 HC4 will come also very soon (don't think soo) and i will wait until the price is have of now!

     

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    On 2/8/2020 at 2:21 PM, petergebruers said:

      Fibaro has said they will support HC2 for at least 2 years.

     

    This is a little sidetrack of the discussion, but have you heard any rumors that there is a possibility that HC2 may stop working

    and just be thrown in the garbage after a couple of years ?

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    25 minutes ago, RobertL said:

    but have you heard any rumors that there is a possibility that HC2 may stop working

    I have not heard such rumor.

    31 minutes ago, RobertL said:

    just be thrown in the garbage after a couple of years ?

    Like Sonos? You mean: intentionally "brick" them when you accept their trade up program, forcing you to dump perfectly fine speakers? AFAIK there is no HC2->HC3 trade up like Sonos, maybe that is good idea, but without the "bricking" of the HC2 of course ;) That is a marketing decision and "not my cup of tea" - I am a tech guy.

     

    2 hours ago, Kage said:

    I did serval reset and now for a year everhing works great.

    I am glad you've found that stability. I have often posted my "Z-Wave rules of thumb" so not going to repeat them, but if you have 50-150 devices it takes some effort to get and maintain performance.

     

    If Fibaro really supports HC2 for at least 2 years, you have time to think about HC3 or HC4 or "whatever" :)

     

    3 hours ago, robw said:

    The new hardware gives Fibaro more legroom to improve the HC3.

    Yes, HC3 is a big "promise", and to some the glass will be half empty (eg because there is no zigbee yet, and bugs to be squashed) and to some it will be half full.

     

     

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