Migration from fibaro HC2 to HC3

[michalppp 4]

Is possible smooth migration from HC2 to HC3? I do not want to setup everything again.

 

[Jamie mccrostie 82]

@cuprum I hear you.
A unfinished Hc2 and they are moving to a unfinished Hc3

Its like it all just got too hard, lets move on.

[petergebruers 1,268]

I do not see how your question fits in this topic, titled "Migration from fibaro HC2 to HC3", so I'll keep it short, but your questions deserve more attention so why not turn them into full topics?

 

My HC2 is 7 years old, but HC2 is still being sold so what can I say... It depends a lot on when you bought it I suppose? I haven't had issues with my 90 physical node network since 2016, that is 4 years of stable performance...

 

When you buy one know... that is a different story.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

I'm not sure, that the HC2 is during this period the priority #1 for support

There are more HC2 users than HC3 users, they cannot neglect the majority, that would be suicide. Anecdotal: last week I reported an issue and yesterday support cleaned up my database. Normal response imho.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

it seems, they internally have lot of "marketdroids", but short of programmers

How many marketdroids and how many programmers, engineers and technically skilled people are working at Fibaro?

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

now all programming forces are focused on new product

I understand your concern but yes, why wouldn't they focus on the new product, at least for the next few months or maybe longer? HC3 like HC2 is a complex product... You want HC3 to fail? Who would benefit from that? Only time will tell how they can balance HC3 versus HC2.

 

But I make no illusion, at the moment, firmware "V5" is not planned to be ported to HC2. But... Maybe ask them directly.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

Is HC2 after this period a "stable" product (i'm not talking about smaller bugs, but just about big ones.. or even a commercially promised features, which ones are not implemented/rolled back now)

I never quite listened to the marketing so I don't remember what was promised. Can you start a new topic with a list of all your wishes for HC2 and broken promises? Sounds like a good idea to remind Fibaro of broken promises.

 

What is a "stable product" in the context of Home Automation? KNX? Again please start a new topic because this one is titled "Migration from fibaro HC2 to HC3". I am sure you'll get plenty of feedback. It is an excellent idea to talk about that, I've already mentioned "Sonos" in this context.

 

3 hours ago, cuprum said:

What's happening after the end of support period with "The Cloud" support? Right now HC2 requires[1] cloud to work.

You can always install "Home Assistant" and Integrate HC2, it uses a local connection and admin password. It exposes devices and scenes so you can use HASS client or web browser on your phone. Even better: you can build your own interface...

[Guest cuprum]

14 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

My HC2 is 7 years old, but HC2 is still being sold so what can I say... It depends a lot on when you bought it I suppose? I haven't had issues with my 90 physical node network since 2016, that is 4 years of stable performance...

 

Yeah, You're right - if the system working well, then actually why to update?   But if not, then there is another story - and if it's foreseen, the system stops working on one bad day (the cloud part shuts down) - then this is third case.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

There are more HC2 users than HC3 users, they cannot neglect the majority, that would be suicide. Anecdotal: last week I reported an issue and yesterday support cleaned up my database. Normal response imho.

Yes, but actually how cares - the HC2 users does not bring any profit (they already paid their money) - but the HC3 must to be attractive to new "cash flow".

 

 

14 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

How many marketdroids and how many programmers, engineers and technically skilled people are working at Fibaro?

I do not know - and i think, they not publish such data. I'm just guessing on that, i see. And actually i see that the GUI is beautiful and marketing promises attractive. But when it goes to realization, then... let's say, it takes time. And more time, when there is a known parallel project for code-guys. 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

But I make no illusion, at the moment, firmware "V5" is not planned to be ported to HC2. But... Maybe ask them directly.

Yes, of course. From the management perspective it's impossible to keep multiple parallel products. Because of that i hope, for The End they put the HC2 into stable place and keep supporting the active infrastructure - OR just make the HC2 as a stable standalone Old Box.

 

14 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

I never quite listened to the marketing so I don't remember what was promised. Can you start a new topic with a list of all your wishes for HC2 and broken promises? Sounds like a good idea to remind Fibaro of broken promises.

So, the things i remember (without the search here):

* Customer plug-ins which ones was able some time ago, and then "temporary" shut down

* OTA - how old the HC2 was, when the OTA gets working - and how many customers complaining/menacing with authorities here

...

Depend, how/where to look, but what's about HC3 and new radios/protocols? Yeah, i think, not to much shops is so stupid, to promise the new radios on HC3 now.

 

 

14 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

What is a "stable product" in the context of Home Automation? KNX?

For me personally - a box, i can left alone and which one does not surprises me with "self-intelligence" - for example a light switching on spontaneously, without any reason.

PS. Because of security "the stable product" can *NOT* be accessible from outside and can NOT accept passwords, *he* does not knows. Yeah, alternative is a product with active security patching.

 

 

14 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

 

You can always install "Home Assistant" and Integrate HC2, it uses a local connection and admin password. It exposes devices and scenes so you can use HASS client or web browser on your phone. Even better: you can build your own interface...

Yeah, have built my own interface already. This is a interface, not the controller. But actually my own logic telling me: "You must have as less intermediate nodes, as you can" - so, seems my toppic related question is little bit changed: "Migration from HC2 to another controller".

 

PS. From my side "trolling" in this topic is over - no more posts. So, if admins prefer to move/delete - feel free.

 

 

 

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

3 minutes ago, cuprum said:

PS. From my side "trolling" in this topic is over - no more posts. So, if admins prefer to move/delete - feel free.

I don't see it as trolling at all, on the contrary, those are valid concerns, and I am certainly not requesting anybody to move or delete anything. I think your concerns are important enough to turn into new topics, instead of getting lost in a topic about migration...

[speedy 64]

Doesn't Fibaro want to make money?

 

Absolutely UNBELIEVABLE that this is not possible.

A migration tool from HC2 to HC3 should be built in from day 1 even when starting to think of a HC3!

 

If I can use all the same components om a HC2 as a HC3 then there should be no excuse for not having a migration tool.

And even if som things are not supported, create a report that sums all those devices up. A simple list with "Unsupported apps and devices".

 

The biggest system I have installed has around 150 devices, 250 scenes and LOTS of custom lua and VD´s that controls everything, alarm, light, garage, rental apartments, cameras, sonos, HUE and more.

So now you are saying, "yeah, we will support this for now, but if you want to upgrade then you have to rebuild you entire system.."

 

What happens when the HC2 is not supported anymore, and not sold? 

So now his whole house stops working?! 

So where is the "save" in money and ease of use that was the main thing?

 

But ok, I get it.

NEVER use Fibaro again and do it with a real brand like Crestron, lutron or similar, at least you know it will be supported properly with future upgrades possible.

With this behaviour, what happens with HC4, same thing?

It's now not financially viable to buy Fibaro if this is the way we have to "upgrade" our systems for future use (rebuilding everything from scratch).

 

Wow, just wow...

[alex88 71]

On 2/11/2020 at 8:33 AM, petergebruers said:

Anecdotal: last week I reported an issue and yesterday support cleaned up my database. Normal response imho.

 

That's because YOU raised the request Peter. Plebs like myself are COMPLETELY ignored for months and years - literally.

 

In my latest batch, I have tickets from 4 months ago that are ignored, I have new tickets from 2 months ago completely ignored. 

 

In fact, I'd suggest for every 10 tickets I raise, about 1 gets a response to completion, 2-3 never get a replied to unless I keep resending and asking for a reply. The remaining tickets are ignored ....  Fibaro support is non-existent except for a lucky few.

[speedy 64]

23 hours ago, amilanov said:

 

That's because YOU raised the request Peter. Plebs like myself are COMPLETELY ignored for months and years - literally.

Fibaro support is non-existent except for a lucky few.

 

Amen!

+1000

And I'm a certified installer.

Eventually they tire you down (not answering, or my personal favourite, giving non-answers that are not relevant) so you don't have the time and energy to respond.

 

[jakub.jezek 370]

On 2/13/2020 at 11:31 AM, amilanov said:

Fibaro support is non-existent except for a lucky few.

Have you tried reached FIBARO via distributor? We distributors/partners do Level 1 support for FIBARO. We have different support channel to reach FIBARO and we get reply very faster.

[alex88 71]

1 hour ago, jakub.jezek said:

Have you tried reached FIBARO via distributor? We distributors/partners do Level 1 support for FIBARO. We have different support channel to reach FIBARO and we get reply very faster

I have tried everything I can think of

The only route that works is this forum and that's not anyways the case unfortunately. 

 

 

[dcspock 17]

Lets hope for tomorrow: 

Please login or register to see this link.

For non-german speaker: Fibaro announced a new firmware for HC2 and HC3 which makes a migration possible.

 

Fingers crossed!

 

 

 

[speedy 64]

13 hours ago, dcspock said:

Lets hope for tomorrow: 

Please login or register to see this link.

For non-german speaker: Fibaro announced a new firmware for HC2 and HC3 which makes a migration possible.

 

Fingers crossed!

 

It's only devices.

 

 

So, yeah, if moving devices is someones biggest issue and you have zero code, VD, plugins, scenes etc etc then that helps.

You still have to redo your entire system.

 

[icekill 4]

Hi Fibaro!

I was about to order a HC3.

However, after the reading of this post, I'm really thinking of an alternative solution, I completely agree with

Please login or register to see this link.

Please login or register to see this link.

: Absolutely UNBELIEVABLE that this is not possible!

There is something basic that your management should understand:

We are the end customers, the users, the buyers...you should not have a short term vision, definetly, because at the end of the day, you'll loose a lot of us.

Thus, you'll try to react but it will be probably too late, that's elementary from a business perpspective.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by icekill

[Guest cuprum]

On 2/20/2020 at 12:36 PM, speedy said:

if moving devices is someones biggest issue and you have zero code

 

Actually seems, it's best, they really can do. Let's do not start arguing, was it unnecessary or not, but they totally changed the ideology and "total transfer" requires little bit more, than current AI can give us. So, the transfer of "logic" is not automatize task. And may-be it's better to build up from ground than to after some time discover, that uuuups, the fish-tank heater does not work exactly as i hoped.

 

From other side - the device move may be quite lot of work. Depending of course of device types and amount. Some are easily accessible, but anyway, depending of count. Other ones may be require deep digging to access to "bind button".   

[dcspock 17]

I am rather disappointed  that official announcements and promises were again made and again not kept and delayed... I hoped that with NICE on board that behaviour of the last decade of Fibaro will change... so far, with the exception of HC3 announcement and actual shipping, nothing changed...

 

under-promise & over-deliver, that’s what makes customers happy... not the other way around... 

[Al3x 2]

was thinking of selling my HC2 and replacing it with a HC3 after a migration of scenes etc but it does not look like its possible and there is no support at all. Very disappointed, how i am wondering whether or not to run it into the ground or look at replacing the HC2 with control4, or homeseer as there is a massive lack in support. Moving the devices seems easy but having to rebuild all my code and scenes seems like a bit of a nightmare. 

 

Does anyone know if they have a working IFTTT?

Edited February 23, 2020 by Al3x

[speedy 64]

12 hours ago, Al3x said:

Moving the devices seems easy but having to rebuild all my code and scenes seems like a bit of a nightmare. 

 

Really agree, moving devices is the easy part (we still don't know when or how well this will be supported anyhow).

HC3 doesn't have any features but Z-wave as of now and will implement during this year.. Knowing Fibaro, this will take to 2021 easy and to solve bugs that comes with the new system.

 

We have to buy a new controller (HC3) and learn a new way of doing things and recode the whole system = I can buy something else that supports Z-wave that is better supported and works today!

The exsisting z-wave devices still work, so its the same work but exchenged for something else.

 

I have been looking into Control4 before (not used it), have you used it?

 

 

16 hours ago, dcspock said:

I am rather disappointed  that official announcements and promises were again made and again not kept and delayed... I hoped that with NICE on board that behaviour of the last decade of Fibaro will change... so far, with the exception of HC3 announcement and actual shipping, nothing changed...

under-promise & over-deliver, that’s what makes customers happy... not the other way around... 

Amen!

 

[[email protected] 1]

Found this change log, you can restore an previous backup from HCL/HC2 to HC3 it seems. Maybe something more than only devices?

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

 

[[email protected] 1]

It seems migration will be able from the portal as well with the correct firmware. It is kind of scary tough, because the source HC will be reset to factory settings. Better make sure your backups are fine and restorable 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Edited February 24, 2020 by [email protected]
Removed duplicate image

[Thomasn 77]

2 hours ago, [email protected] said:

It seems migration will be able from the portal as well with the correct firmware. It is kind of scary tough, because the source HC will be reset to factory settings. Better make sure your backups are fine and restorable 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

If this is true, it is great news!

[speedy 64]

Don't want to put anyones mood down, but from official Q/A (80 questions) document from my supplier from Fibaro this is stated:

From Q/A document:

 

5. Will there be any way to migrate from HC2 or HCL to Home Center 3?

"

With HC3 update 5.021 planned for 20.02.2020, an update for HC2 and HCL will be released, allowing for migration of devices from these units to HC3 (without reconfiguring or removing them).

The migration will also transfer their name.

Of course, although we are working on this element, there may be situations that we are not able to predict and the conversion of some devices will end in failure.
The whole process will be based on the exchange of controllers to keep the Z-Wave network settings unchanged.

HC3 will become the default controller with Node ID = 1 to which other devices will report changes.

"

 

So, if they haven't solved migration in 2 weeks then it's still devices only.