Z-wave repeater

[cag014 624]

For a long a time I'm looking for efficient Z-wave repeater. Have tried Aeon Labs, DÜWI, Leviton repeaters w/o any success at all.

Recently have found Neo coolcam repeater and relatively at low price (~$40 USD).

Honestly, I thought it will be a waste of money, but have placed the order anyway.

Yesterday I have received and included the repeater, unbelievable it does work!!!!  

Surprisingly, the repeater installed very close to the controller (a little bit further from devices than controller himself), but devices surrounded by concrete walls now works w/o problems (had many Zwave disconnections with them - dead/wakeup issues). 

Have no idea how to explain that the controller is closer to devices and doesn't work properly as a repeater.

 

Note: Please exclude devices (which use repeater) from polling or the devices will end up as disconnected.

 

In addition, the repeater has temperature and humidity sensors also.

 

So here is the link... 

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Please don't ask for refund from me, If the repeater won't work for you. 😁

 

BTW, have placed an order for two more....👍

Edited November 25, 2022 by cag014

[Momos 98]

did you zniff it?  As i was in the same boat some time ago and after trying some of the repeaters mentioned by you i found out that they spammed my network, causing more harm then good.  Ended up relocating my HC3 in the middle of the house in the ceiling lol 

 

[cag014 624]

5 hours ago, Momos said:

did you zniff it?  As i was in the same boat some time ago and after trying some of the repeaters mentioned by you i found out that they spammed my network, causing more harm then good.  Ended up relocating my HC3 in the middle of the house in the ceiling lol 

 

My Z-wave sniffer has dead few months ago, but I did run

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on HC2 and HC3 (my private version) and didn't see any unusual activity.  Currently the repeater included on HC3.

 

By the way, I did find something interesting. Devices that are using repeater must be excluded from polling. It looks like polling command class isn't supported by repeater or polling class totally different from other command classes.

Anyhow since I don't have zniffer that's only my assumption.

To all users that will use this repeater, please exclude problematic devices from polling otherwise controller will find them as disconnected.

 

Is anyone having an idea why polling command fails while other commands work?

 

[petrkl12 187]

@cag014 I was using your Zwave monitor for HC2. It was perfect solution and it helps me to optimize zwave traffic. Thanks. Could you share your tool for HC3?

[cag014 624]

6 hours ago, petrkl12 said:

@cag014 I was using your Zwave monitor for HC2. It was perfect solution and it helps me to optimize zwave traffic. Thanks. Could you share your tool for HC3?

Not yet... it works with a lot of manual interventions.

Working on that, hopefully will be released soon.

[petergebruers 1,257]

7 hours ago, cag014 said:

My Z-wave sniffer has dead few months ago

With your network, its complexities and size, I recommend a new Zniffer. You will only use it once a year but it is a lifesaver.

 

7 hours ago, cag014 said:

Devices that are using repeater must be excluded from polling.

That makes no sense from a protocol perspective, I am sure Zniffer will tell you what the real problem is

 

7 hours ago, cag014 said:

It looks like polling command class isn't supported by repeater

You mean: you think the repeater does not forward "polling" command to other devices? Impossible. repeaters do not care about the contents of the packet - they have to repeat "opaque" packets.

 

7 hours ago, cag014 said:

or polling class totally different from other command classes.

A poll means performing a "get" command and it uses the same class as the "report" it is going to send as a response. They are of course not identical in length.

 

Thinking out loud...

 

You did not say "security" was used but it is important, especially S0 is know to cause trouble for various reasons

 

The S0 security protocol encapsulates your data, causes 3 to 4 more packets for the same date and is bound by all sorts of bounds, checks and timers. Do not use S0 unless it is critical eg the device in question can open doors.

 

7 hours ago, cag014 said:

Anyhow since I don't have zniffer that's only my assumption.

You can buy two ZW500 dongles for 60 EUR at mouser, links on this forum, ......... if the world wide chip shortage hasn't affected them. It takes you 1/2 hour to make a zniffer then 1 hour to analyse.

 

I value my time at about 15 EUR per hour so the total cost - to answer the exact same question in my house - would be less than 100 EUR, and that Zniffer is not a pure cost but an investment.

 

BTW I might be able to fix your existing dongle, if it got flashed with the wrong firmware. But it takes some effort to send it, solder thin wires, run the right tools etc etc). It is a lot more effort for you and me than simply buying a new one. Contact me via PM if you want me to try.

 

 

Important message to all users: Z-Wave routing does not work as you think. It is not like TCP/IP. To understand it you must read:

 

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Written by the esteemed @robmac who left this forum to do open source but whos has spend years with me to unravel Z-Wave protocol. You will find no better source on the internet.

 

Introduction:

 

"There is a lot of misunderstanding about z-wave routing.

This is a very simplified bitesize description that avoids explanation of how the routes are established and managed, how preferences are defined and the types of attempts at communication that are made to get a command or acknowledgement through. It deals with the simple and ideal source route example.

All of the clever things z-wave does to get the message through will be described in a later post."

 

 

A lot of this discussions centers about what does a mesh update do and why you need it. I wrote this detailed post about it:

 

 

[cag014 624]

9 hours ago, petergebruers said:

You mean: you think the repeater does not forward "polling" command to other devices? Impossible. repeaters do not care about the contents of the packet - they have to repeat "opaque" packets.

 

That's what I know also. 

Looks like the polling process takes very long time and if any other command will be executed during this period, "transfer failed" appears and device shown as disconnected.

 

In addition, I have a huge problem to reach devices located on balcony (second floor). Currently I added Ybuii controller there, have ordered another repeater let's see if it will cover that area also and I can get rid of Yubii there.

Will keep forum posted about the progress.

Bottom line, I do recommend using this repeater.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by cag014

[cag014 624]

1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

You can buy two ZW500 dongles for 60 EUR at mouser, links on this forum, ......... if the world wide chip shortage hasn't affected them. It takes you 1/2 hour to make a zniffer then 1 hour to analyse.

 

I value my time at about 15 EUR per hour so the total cost - to answer the exact same question in my house - would be less than 100 EUR, and that Zniffer is not a pure cost but an investment.

 

BTW I might be able to fix your existing dongle, if it got flashed with the wrong firmware. But it takes some effort to send it, solder thin wires, run the right tools etc etc). It is a lot more effort for you and me than simply buying a new one. Contact me via PM if you want me to try.

 

Thanks, have placed an order.

Meanwhile may I suggest you ordering this repeater also to analyze his behavior...  "Two heads are better than one.".

I'm ready to pay you back😁

Edited November 25, 2022 by cag014

[cag014 624]

37 minutes ago, cag014 said:

n addition, I have a huge problem to reach devices located on balcony (second floor). Currently I added Ybuii controller there, have ordered another repeater let's see if it will cover that area also and I can get rid of Yubii there.

Will keep forum posted about the progress.

It's too good to be true...

Have included one of the devices from second floor Yubii to HC3 (located at first floor) and it works!! The device not only located at second floor, but it also placed inside metal box (rain protection)

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No doubt, the extra repeater that I ordered will help more....

[petergebruers 1,257]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:12 PM, cag014 said:

Looks like the polling process takes very long time and if any other command will be executed during this period, "transfer failed" appears and device shown as disconnected.

Ah, so the controller behaves as if the node is dead, but this might also be caused by very high traffic

 

Do you use automatic poll (either fully automatic or timed poll)? A possible workaround or at least a way to investigate would be to use Lua "poll" in scenes, but only when you spect that the affected device needs a poll, eg because you think it should be "on" (because the light or appliance is definitely on) but stays off on your HC. I have used this in the passed but decided an upgrade from a non-Z-Wave Plus module to a Z-Wave Plus version would solve all my problems. Which it did...

 

 

On 11/25/2022 at 1:12 PM, cag014 said:

In addition, I have a huge problem to reach devices located on balcony (second floor). Currently I added Ybuii controller there

I guess that would be overkill to reach only the balcony but if you have one, that should definitely be better than a "flakey Z-Wave mesh" indeed!

 

On 11/25/2022 at 1:33 PM, cag014 said:

Meanwhile may I suggest you ordering this repeater also to analyze his behavior...  "Two heads are better than one.".

I am a bit hesitant to buy one because for personal reasons I will not have any Home Automation in 2023, so no Z-Wave network to use it with. Knowing that Neo afaik rarely or never releases firmware updates it makes sense to buy this as late as possible with newest firmware.

 

Can I offer to do some "teamviewer session(s)" with Zniffer when you got your Z-Wave Stick?

 

On 11/25/2022 at 1:59 PM, cag014 said:

Have included one of the devices from second floor Yubii to HC3 (located at first floor) and it works!! The device not only located at second floor, but it also placed inside metal box (rain protection)

Mmmmm yeah and if that is a First Generation Z-Wave Plug then it would struggle definitely in those circumstances, the Z-Wave Plus version would fare better.

 

Does this mean you have communication in one direction, but still struggle with "polling" some devices?