Fibaro Heat Controller 0 degrees sensor

[eureka 9]

Hi,

 

Just installed my Fibaro Heat Controller with Sensor. My homecenter 2 is picking up both the sensor and the heat controller (also connection between radiator and sensor was executed), so far so good. However, if I look at the temperature that the seperate sensor is providing. It says it's 0 degrees celsius. I've been waiting for a while now and also did a soft reset but it's still at 0 degrees.

 

What can be going wrong? or is this a known bug?

 

also: is there a known way to fix the sensor to the wall? I want it to be at 1.50meters to get correct temperature. But if i would fix it using tape I cannot get to the battery anymore. Probably i'm missing something because i can't imagine that they make a seperate sensor without having a way to fix it to something... right?

Edited December 14, 2017 by eureka

[samuelAN 1]

On 05/01/2018 at 9:55 AM, eureka said:

@I.Srodka any news on the firmware update? It's kinda hot in here...

+1...

 

Knowing in which situation and conditions the regulation is not operating properly can maybe help until the firmware update is released?

[DennisDM 3]

On 19-12-2017 at 11:32 AM, I.Srodka said:

Hello guys!

 

Thank you for your patience!

 

I just wanted to make sure that those information posted by @eureka are accurate:

- extra sensor reports every 10 minutes to the thermostatic head

- The Fibaro Heat Controller reports to the HC every 2-3 hours or when the temperature readings differ by 0.5-1 degree from the last report

- we found some incorrect calculations

 

I can confirm that we are preparing an update for The Fibaro Heat Controller. However, I cannot specify any dates just yet.

 

Please let it be quick!

[samuelAN 1]

Any update...???

[Gianluca S. 1]

The delivery date seems in March. Disappointed but this are the infos from fibaro support......

We need to find some workaround (using Lua or other) that maybe can be delivered by Fibaro in order to support this unpleasant situation.

Fibaro can share also some beta firmware for valves in order to anticipate the delivery date and start to work better that now....that are useless.... 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Gianluca S.

[samuelAN 1]

7 minutes ago, Gianluca S. said:

The delivery date seems in March. Disappointed but this are the infos from fibaro support......

We need to find some workaround (using Lua or other) that maybe can be delivered by Fibaro in order to support this unpleasant situation.

Fibaro can share also some beta firmware for valves in order to anticipate the delivery date and start to work better that now....that are useless.... 

A temporary solution from Fibaro seems to be mandatory... hope that this will be available very soon! Don't understand very well why it take so long ..

[samuelAN 1]

7 minutes ago, Gianluca S. said:

The delivery date seems in March. Disappointed but this are the infos from fibaro support......

We need to find some workaround (using Lua or other) that maybe can be delivered by Fibaro in order to support this unpleasant situation.

Fibaro can share also some beta firmware for valves in order to anticipate the delivery date and start to work better that now....that are useless.... 

A temporary solution from Fibaro seems to be mandatory... hope that this will be available very soon! Don't understand very well why it take so long ..

[meute 2]

My workaround by forcing the valve to open or close and crush the wrong regulation works perfectly so far.
After a week of use with this trick, I can estimate that it will probably drain the battery in 5 or 6 weeks because the valves are almost never able to settle themselves between the limits of -1 ° and + 1 ° that I gives, so they open or close completely every 1 or 2 hours when the set point is reached. But meanwhile my Heat controller is usable.

[samuelAN 1]

The bug is also present when external temperature sensor is not used?

The bug is also present when external temperature sensor is not used?

[petergebruers 1,264]

27 minutes ago, meute said:

My workaround by forcing the valve to open or close and crush the wrong regulation works perfectly so far.

Thank you for reporting back. That is also basically what Fibaro support now tells people to do. Run a loop, if too cold send high temp if too hot send cold temp to valve. I am sure that works, but I think for me it is easier to put back my old valves.

 

Bear in mind, if battery is low the valves open fully, then it shuts down. It might get very  hot. I recommend you charge them as soon as it reports "lower" battery.

 

19 minutes ago, samuelAN said:

The bug is also present when external temperature sensor is not used

In my case... Yes.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by petergebruers

[Gianluca S. 1]

49 minutes ago, samuelAN said:

The bug is also present when external temperature sensor is not used?

The bug is also present when external temperature sensor is not used?

 

This is a good point. Any experience on this?

[petergebruers 1,264]

34 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

 

52 minutes ago, samuelAN said:

The bug is also present when external temperature sensor is not used

In my case... Yes.

 

[meute 2]

42 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

Bear in mind, if battery is low the valves open fully, then it shuts down. It might get very  hot. I recommend you charge them as soon as it reports "lower" battery.

I'm not sure of that, because for sure the user who reported this behavior experience the same problem as everybody on the regulation and thus mainly the valve is full opened or full closed when they should not be and rarely between thus it's not sure that the valve have not shuts down simply as they was ...

[petergebruers 1,264]

6 minutes ago, meute said:

I'm not sure of that, because for sure the user who reported this behavior experience the same problem as everybody on the regulation and thus mainly the valve is full opened or full closed when they should not be and rarely between thus it's not sure that the valve have not shuts down simply as they was ...

 

Good point. I thought about that when I read that post. At the moment, I am unable to find the original statement. My initial thought was like you, that the valve was stuck open at the time of the dead battery, but I seem vaguely to remember that Fibaro confirmed the behaviour (valve opens if battery low). I might be wrong, they might be wrong. However, if they use the "standby" code of the valve, this "open at battery low" is plausible. Because when you select the cyan menu option, the valve indeed opens (to facilitate removal and re-insertion after wake-up, the LC series does that too) then the FGT goes offline.

 

You did not say this, but I would like to avoid some possible confusion. I do not force my valve fully open/close. My FGT definitely does not go between fully open and fully closed, it does have intermediate setting most of the time.

 

I do not know how my FGTs respond before they go flat... it is difficult to test (keep the device awake by sending data comes to mind... 1400 mAh battery / about 40 mA with Z-Wave radio on = 35 hours). 

 

If users implement an on-off control... They can calculate the possibility of the valve getting stuck open when the battery dies.

[eureka 9]

@petergebruers@meute

 

OP here, read your last 2 comments but I do not fully understand the question? I don't have low battery or something. I also cannot exactly pinpoint when the issue is in place. Sometimes it seems to work properly (max difference of 0.5 degrees from set temperature) but other times it just completely overheats by a few degrees.

 

Haven't found any pattern in it.

[petergebruers 1,264]

1 minute ago, eureka said:

OP here, read your last 2 comments but I do not fully understand the question? I don't have low battery or something

No, battery level does not have anything to do with the bug.

 

Fibaro recommended, like @meute to make your own script... To fully open and close it based on some temperature sensor.

 

It is just a friendly warning. If the battery dies when the valve is fully open... It might get VERY hot in the room!

 

5 minutes ago, eureka said:

Haven't found any pattern in it.

 

Confirmed. All users on this forum and other forums report the same thing: the crashes are *completely random*

 

If someone finds a pattern or a cause, I would like to know.

 

Fibaro support says... We know, we are working on a fix (firmware)

 

Does this clear up the confusion?

[eureka 9]

@petergebruers yep! it does! thought there was a question to me in post from @meute as he specifically mention OP in his post

 

Really unfortunate though that firmware upgrade takes so long...Especially as it is quite a big bug..

[meute 2]

Quote

Sometimes it seems to work properly (max difference of 0.5 degrees from set temperature)

 

In one of my rooms I have 2 radiators with 2 Heat Controller linked to the same external sensor.

 

As I manage these 2 heat controller like if they are only one, both Heat Controllers get always the same setpoint and works with my tricks at the same time to close both valves at setpoint +1, open the valves at setpoint -1 and let them regulate between setpoint -0.5 and setpoint +0.5 until they reach again one of the 1°c boundary who will force it again.

 

Some times I see that the valves stays both in "Regulation" mode for a long time, about 3 or 4 hours and are not forced during this time and the room temp stay pretty stable like if the regulation is working perfectly.

 

But when I go to this room to check, there is always one of the heat controller who is fully opened by it's regulation and the other who is fully closed by it's regulation and it's strange but it's always the same who stuck fully opened and the same who stuck fully closed, so one of the radiator is always very hot and the second completely cold and seems that in this condition in my case there is just enough heating power to maintain the setpoint for this room but it's just a coincidence, it's only because my boiler send the water at constant temperature and because the outside temperature is also constant during this time.

 

And in this situation there is no comfort because the room temp is maybe at the setpoint but with one radiator too hot and the other too cold the feeling is really not comfortable.

 

So check carefully the behavior because sometimes something who seems to work correctly in fact not work at all, it's just special circumstance who let think that everything is working until one parameter is changing and that all become again visibly wrong

Edited January 21, 2018 by meute

[samuelAN 1]

12 minutes ago, eureka said:

@petergebruers yep! it does! thought there was a question to me in post from @meute as he specifically mention OP in his post

 

Really unfortunate though that firmware upgrade takes so long...Especially as it is quite a big bug..

Yep.. too long... all my heat valves are put in my drawer. They are completely useless.. very disappointing for the price.. this was my first Fibaro product

[petergebruers 1,264]

26 minutes ago, eureka said:

Really unfortunate though that firmware upgrade takes so long...

 

I agree... I am sorry...

 

26 minutes ago, meute said:

Some times I see that the valves stays both in "Regulation" mode for a long time, about 3 or 4 hours and are not forced during this time and the room temp stay pretty stable like if the regulation is working perfectly.

 

Thank you for your long and elaborate post. I get the impression you cannot let go the idea to "tame" this valve... No worries, I connect let go either

 

Your post deserves some follow up from me and some graphs and explanation, but unfortunately I am not at home and I my be unable to do that today. Very short version: I'm with you on most parts of your post!

 

16 minutes ago, samuelAN said:

Yep.. too long... all my heat valves are put in my drawer. They are completely useless.. very disappointing for the price.. this was my first Fibaro product

 

Ouch! What can I say... long time forum member here... Latest product launches where quite uneventful... for me, personally, this is the worst in years. That does not make you happy, I understand. I'm not happy either, but I expected some trouble so I still have my old valves as a backup. I think this product got less test time, but this is pure speculation. People do not come here to say "hey, it works!". I think the FGD-212 is one of their top products, I like it *very* much. It took them a few firmware updates to make it more compatible with a different range of LED bulbs, ripple control in different countries and long wires to the inputs.... I wish you would have tried that one first...

[meute 2]

42 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

I get the impression you cannot let go the idea to "tame" this valve... 

I can't ... I want and must absolutely use it, because the upgrade of my heating system with this product is part of a more global change of concept of it and of the way I want to manage it.

So I don't want to reverse all the other actions and change I have already made for that only because this Heat Controller is not working as it should.

 

I waited the availability of this product for a long time, at the beginning my plans was to use z-wave TRV from POP or Danfoss until I have seen the first announcement from Fibaro about this product.
I have thus postponed the complet project to wait for this product, now the product is there, the winter too and I can't go back and wait for the firmware update.

 

And with a so bad first behavour I may have doubts that the first fix will be perfect directly. 
So some users who will wait till beginning or maybe end of March will maybe wait again more ...
And here after March the time remaining before get the summer or at least starting to get best outdoor conditions will make the validation of the fix more difficult and problems will not come back before the next heating season ...

 

By finding solutions to fix it myself enough to be able to use it right now I know that for the next season I can always use it and make it work even if the fix from Fibaro don't give fully conclusive results.

Edited January 21, 2018 by meute