Heating algorithm not good at all

[adyboss 11]

 

Hello,

Maybe I am wrong or maybe I don't know how to use the Climate automation on Fibaro HC2 together with Fibaro TRV (Radiator Termostat Head + sensor) but I consider the heating algorithm very strange...
Here is my problem and what is happening with my automation scheme.

I am using the following:
- Fibaro HC2 - 4.160

- Gas central heating
- Fibaro TRV (radiator head thermostat with external temperature sensor)
- Danfoss Link RS Z-Wave (Room thermostat and temperature sensor)
- VD - Heating Override v1.3 - @Dave Harrison 
- Scene 1 - Multi-room Call for Heat - @Dave Harrison - local threshold = 0.3
- Scene 2 - Room Thermostat Override - @Dave Harrison
- Scene 3 - Main scene for time based events control {v 1.2.5} - @Sankotronic

- Three rooms:

   1. Bedroom: Fibaro TRV + external temp sensor + Danfoss Link RS Z-Wave (set as main temperature sensor and main thermostat)

   2. Kids room: Danfoss Link RS Z-Wave (set as main temperature sensor and main thermostat). I have NO radiator thermostat!

   3. Living room: nothing  

 

I have set the heating panel to 23 degrees all day/night (24 hours) in all rooms.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Because of this, Fibaro TRV is automatically set at 23 as permanent.

If in Bedroom I have 23 C, the Fibaro TRV valve is OFF, Heating system OFF. Until now all normal.

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

But, if in Bedroom I have 22.4, the valve is still OFF (!) or almost - gas central heating is started. I know this because the Bedroom's radiator (Fibarot TRV) is cold and the Kids room radiator (without valve) is hot.To make it warmer, I have to set the Fibaro TRV at 24 C. Only then, after I hear the noise from TRV's motor, the radiator become warmer. But... is not enough.

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Small flames meaning radiator valve opened too little

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Big flames meaning radiator valve wide opened.

 

Think only about heating the Room 1: Bedroom.

So, the first problem is that the valves are closing "progressive" in a wrong way explained below.

It is wrong because if I have the heating panel set at 23 C and the temp sensor measure 22.4 C, the valve is opened too little in order to rise the room temperature to 23 C. Same if I want to make 24 C when temp sensor measure 23 C. The radiator is barely lukewarm and unable to rise the room temperature. In this time, the central gas is running (consuming gas and electricity).

To become HOT I have to set the thermostat (or even the valve radiator) at 26 C (or more). I can hear again noise for opening valve and radiator become hot.

As high I set the Thermostat temperature, as more the Fibaro TRV is opening.

 

The correct way is to open the radiator valve (Fibaro TRV) as much it can and when the measured temperature (by temp sensor) will become closer to the set temperature (by thermostat), the valve will close (progressive to full close).

In this way will be avoided to run the gas central without heating the radiator because of closed valve...

 

Or as I've started... maybe I am wrong

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by adyboss
Correction:  2. Kids room: Danfoss Link RS Z-Wave (set as main temperature sensor and main thermostat). I have NO radiator thermostat!

[samuelAN 1]

10 hours ago, pillar said:

these TRV are so fuc*n useless -.-" is the firmware update already estimated? I got 5 of these devices and and cant use them :-/

 

some of them are heating (just a bit??), some of them are not even on....They only work if I use them manually....

There is no firmware update available and no estimated date for this firmware.

 

This is exactly as you said, a useless product at 80€. I have dismounted all Fibaro valves and replaced them by my old mechanical valves because I was heating all my rooms by exceeding the setpoint. I have lost a lot of money in gas already due to these ... valves.

 

And the best is that we have no answer from Fibaro. Even a preliminary date.

 

I am afraid that this product will just be discontinued by Fibaro in the following weeks. Moreover , it is no more available in most of European suppliers (or only suppliers stocks).

[marcwau 30]

I am not so sure that the product will be discontinued.

I received a number of HCs and sensors today, they are still being sold by Amazon and others (not the Starter Pack, only the separate boxes).

The ones I got have a production date of mid January, serial numbers around 7000, and a software version 4.

 

The installation was relatively smooth, except that the pairing of the sensor took several attempts before the sensor was found.

 

But the HC immediately showed a total "disobedience".... it was set to 16 degrees, the temperature in the room was 20 degrees, and instead of closing, it stayed open all the time, so the temperature in the room only went up instead of down.

 

What I find very hard to understand is that some 7000 units have been shipped (and orders are still being fulfilled) while probably none of them works properly because the software (even version 4!!) does not work. Imagine what version 1, 2 or 3 must have been like...

 

And in the mean time, not a word from Fibaro. A text book case of how (product) crisis management should NOT be handled.

The more units get out there, the more Fibaro will have to take back if the problems can't be fixed with new firmware alone.

But as long as Fibaro totally avoids the subject, or even commits to a time line, the problems can only get worse before they get better... for us, and for them.

 

[marcwau 30]

Thank you for that confirmation.

 

But is there any explanation why even the most basic function of the HC, namely regulating the temperature in a room, never worked properly, which every customer experiences almost immediately? And still thousands of units were shipped? Was the product ever tested at Fibaro before going into production?

 

The website page mentions all these unique, some even patented, features and sophisticated algorithms, but keeping a correct temperature in a room was missed?

I think we would all have appreciated more communications on the subject, instead of total radio silence for months...

 

[adyboss 11]

5 hours ago, I.Srodka said:

Hello guys!

 

In the first half of March there will be a firmware update for the Heat Controller.

 

The product will not be discontinued. 

 

Hi @I.Srodka,

Can you tell us what will be new/fixed in the "new firmware"?

Regards.

[fr3sh 0]

Hi @I.Srodka, any chance to update device without central unit? How to update the firmware without it? It's not our fault that you sold a not working produkt

[DennisDM 3]

When is the firmware update comming? why does it take so long?

 

[svaleb 5]

Would be nice to know what is going on...?

[rdfeij 0]

 

 

On 20-2-2018 at 3:28 PM, I.Srodka said:

 

 

Hello guys!

 

In the first half of March there will be a firmware update for the Heat Controller.

 

The product will not be discontinued. 

 

@

Please login or register to see this link.

 

Reading this topic i'm having the same issues. I wanted to state one more:

 

TRV "OFF" valve closes as it should be

Meassured temperature by central sensor: 18,4 degrees celsius

TRV put to 10 degrees celsius -> immidiatly I hear the valves opening a little bit, room starts (very slow) warming till 21 degrees celsius. There it finds balance between the open valve and temperature loss.. (valve still don't closes)

 

If smart algorithms are put in then I wonder how smart they are... With a temperature difference of 8 degrees between meassured  and set temperature the valve should stay shut tight!!!.

 

2nd I read that on low/empty bat the valve opens to be able for easy removing the TRV for charging it.... 
Since we have city heating (basicly  70 degree celsius warm water coming into the house from external source)  this would say that if i'm only holiday and  my batteries are low then my house warmes up to 70 degrees.

I'm a new firmware is released I hope there will be a setting in which we can choose to set valve open or closed on low battery. Since I don't  need to remove them for charging (using powerbank) this feature now is useless, or even dangerous!!!!

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by rdfeij

[adyboss 11]

It seems the new Firmware is coming this week according @I.Srodka

Maybe some of us we'll have a chance to test it... taking in consideration the outside temperature

[samuelAN 1]

On 11/03/2018 at 9:47 AM, rdfeij said:

 

 

 

@

Please login or register to see this link.

 

Reading this topic i'm having the same issues. I wanted to state one more:

 

TRV "OFF" valve closes as it should be

Meassured temperature by central sensor: 18,4 degrees celsius

TRV put to 10 degrees celsius -> immidiatly I hear the valves opening a little bit, room starts (very slow) warming till 21 degrees celsius. There it finds balance between the open valve and temperature loss.. (valve still don't closes)

 

If smart algorithms are put in then I wonder how smart they are... With a temperature difference of 8 degrees between meassured  and set temperature the valve should stay shut tight!!!.

 

2nd I read that on low/empty bat the valve opens to be able for easy removing the TRV for charging it.... 
Since we have city heating (basicly  70 degree celsius warm water coming into the house from external source)  this would say that if i'm only holiday and  my batteries are low then my house warmes up to 70 degrees.

I'm a new firmware is released I hope there will be a setting in which we can choose to set valve open or closed on low battery. Since I don't  need to remove them for charging (using powerbank) this feature now is useless, or even dangerous!!!!

 

I invite you to read my post : 

for me, not being able to configure the valve to close on empty battery is a huge security issue...

[maygyver 0]

@

Please login or register to see this link.

all available heat controller (fibaro/danfoss/stella) have the same problem, if battery gets empty they might not be able to close valve

Edited March 12, 2018 by maygyver

[rdfeij 0]

1 hour ago, maygyver said:

@

Please login or register to see this link.

all available heat controller (fibaro/danfoss/stella) have the same problem, if battery gets empty they might not be able to close valve

Might not be able to... Is ok. Fibaro just opens it.

[Gianluca S. 1]

New firmware now aivaliable.......

Im installing it...cross the finger...

[petergebruers 1,268]

10 minutes ago, Gianluca S. said:

New firmware now aivaliable.......

Im installing it...cross the finger...

 

I've updated 2xFGT-001 plus external sensor. Update OK, takes 1/2 hour per TRV. After update I took no risk (of having "stuff lingering") and excluded, reset and re-included the devices. They are now sitting in the "unassigned" room and I'll be monitoring their performance.

[adyboss 11]

Can someone post the change log please?

[rdfeij 0]

On 12-3-2018 at 7:36 PM, adyboss said:

Can someone post the change log please?

Changelog according to HC2: 

Changelog:

• 4.3
• Improved operation stability in schedule mode,
• Improved temperature regulation,
• Improved valve calibration mechanism,
• Improved battery charging algorithm.

• Warning:
• Update can take up to 30 minutes. It depends on Z-wave traffic,
• If possible, locate the device in the close nearby (ca. 2m) of the Home Center to avoid failures,
• Wait few minutes after successful update and check if version of device has changed,
• In case of strange device behaviour there may be need of reconfiguration/reinclusion.

[petergebruers 1,268]

Regarding the update, I suggest you continue the discussion here, because it already contains quite a bit of useful information regarding this update...