Fibaro Dimmer 2 and light goes off after less than 1 asecond

[Alex 32]

I have one problem:
I tried to install the new dimmer 2.

Everything worked fine so far (inclusion, automatic detection).

I have two momentary switches. If I use one of them controlling light works fine.

I am having two light in a row (two lamps at different positions).

 

The dimmer 2 module is connected to L, N. The output of switch 1 is connected to S1 (the other switch is connected to the first switch via

Light 1 is connected to O, than to the second light and back to neutral.

(So phase is connected to L of the module and input to the switches, neutral lead to N and end of second light, output of switch is connected to S1 and this "O" from the module is connected to the first light)

 

 

Now the problem:

If I switch on the lights via app or web page it goes on to the dimming value I want.  but only for very short time (less than a second).

So it switches off directly.

If I repeat this it happens again. But after the third or fourth time the light stays on.

After switching it off again and waiting for a minute (I have not measured this) I can reproduce this behaviour.

 

 

What have I done wrong?

Any more details needed?

[DrNik 0]

Update:

 

I know what the problem is, its the length of the wires from the momentary switches. If i install just one momentary switch it works, if i instal 2 or more it don't work. The wires to the momentary switches are +/- 15 to 20m.

So i try something else, i have installed 5 momentary switches to the dimmer with only 30 cm of wire and it works fine. After that i have installed one momentary switch with 100m of wire and it goes wrong.

 

So the problem is just the lenght of the wires to S1

 

I don't get it, because all 3 momentary switches works fine, i can turn the light on and off and dimm on every 3 of the momentary switches, only if i want to turn on the light by app or web it fails and need 3 try's to go and stay on.

 

Please Fibaro, now you have enaugh information to track this problem. If i can help you guy's with some tests etc. please lett me know!

 

Dear all,

 

new to the forum, and registered out of frustration with the Fibaro dimmers. I require leading edge dimming for a number of lights (12v halogen and I can't switch to electronic transfos) so I've little other options to deploy (I've had 0 issues with Q.... dimmers).

 

I can second the comment made above RE wire length. I have 4 212 dimmers (v3.3) side by side next to their respective transfos. Wire length for 2 of them is <4m and they work very reliably both using NO switches and the controller (I'm using SmartThings). 2 others each have a cabling length > 20m with up to 4 NO switches each. My old X-10 which I'm upgrading worked perfectly fine on this setup, but I simply cannot get these lights to turn on reliably. I've had the "1 second flash" repeatedly on both manual switch input as from the controller.

 

Changing min/max values, dimmer rates, double click (all the settings suggested in these 11 pages) have a had no significant effect on reliability...

 

thanks!!

Nik.

[DrNik 0]

Dear all,

 

new to the forum, and registered out of frustration with the Fibaro dimmers. I require leading edge dimming for a number of lights (12v halogen and I can't switch to electronic transfos) so I've little other options to deploy (I've had 0 issues with Q.... dimmers).

 

I can second the comment made above RE wire length. I have 4 212 dimmers (v3.3) side by side next to their respective transfos. Wire length for 2 of them is <4m and they work very reliably both using NO switches and the controller (I'm using SmartThings). 2 others each have a cabling length > 20m with up to 4 NO switches each. My old X-10 which I'm upgrading worked perfectly fine on this setup, but I simply cannot get these lights to turn on reliably. I've had the "1 second flash" repeatedly on both manual switch input as from the controller.

 

Changing min/max values, dimmer rates, double click (all the settings suggested in these 11 pages) have a had no significant effect on reliability...

 

thanks!!

Nik.

 

FYI, I realised I had plenty of spare room once I moved the dimmers next to the transfos (located in attic / storage space). I separated both circuits with a relay as suggested by @petergebruers earlier in this thread, with now the Sx -> S1 loop extremely short through the relay, and the lights work *very* stable so far... I have 1 circuit with 5 momentary switches (feeding off of L wire) and ~25-30m cabling just triggering the relay, and then onto the 212. Seems to work perfectly for both manual and controller operation...

 

Hope this can validate the solution for other users as well. I'm not very technically inclined when it comes to electrical components, but getting and wiring a Conrad relay really was all it took...

 

thanks!!

Nik.

 

(Now if I can just get rid of the flickering in the evening with pulses coming from the grid, this'd be perfect)

[Alexandra 7]

I have the same problem like descibed here.
When i switch the dimmer 2 on by momentary switches it turns off again in less than 1 second. When i slowly press switches 3-4 times it stays on.
With dimmer 1 with same cabling this problem wasn't there.
I have 3 momentary switches parallel at S1 and 4x7W Philips LED bulps in parallel as load.

 

I measured the voltage on the cable connectet to S1 only produced by induction by living cables lying next to it in the wall and it is pretty high because of the lengt of the cables.
It seems like Dimmer 2 has problems to distinguish reliably between "on" and "off" voltage when it should turn on.

The induction voltage acts like a second button press for the Dimmer 2.

Is this right? Can this be solved by a firmware update of the Dimmer 2?
Or can i have an exchange for a better version?

 

It's unfortunately not possible to replace my cables to shielded ones. Too less space in the wall-tubes.

 

Btw. controlling by HC was working well. Until i tried to do a reconfiguration to see if this solves my Problem.
Reconfiguration didn't complete. No exclusion or exclusion of devices was possible anymore.
Even after a restart it was telling be a reconfiguration of the dimmer is still in progress.
It wasn't even possible to delete the dimmer by force.
I had to do an exclusion by my Razberry. Luckily i have one. After that i could reinclude the dimmer and configure it properly in HC.
But the ON/OFF Problem was still there. 

Is there a solution?

 

[m.roszak 763]

Please open a ticket on our support zone, they will help you resolve this issue

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[hcke 2]

I have got the same problem. Where can I find the support zone?

[Alexandra 7]

I have the same question. Where is your support zone?

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[m.roszak 763]

[email protected]

[dhendo 2]

Has anyone made any progress with support with the multiple switches / wire length issue?

 

I've been going back and forth with them over the last few months fiddling with settings but with no major success.

[petergebruers 1,268]

If settings can't fix it, your problems might come from having long (several meters) wires connected to S1. Not all users experience this problem, and reports on cable length vary! To test that, disconnect the wires from S1 and S2 and put a switch close to the relay. Wire length should be < 30 cm. If your problems disappear, it is very likely the pickup of noise on those wires. In that case, a relay is your best option.

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... and a few other references in this thread.

Do you have soldering skills? And you have some space, about the size of a Fibaro module, close to the FGD-212? Then this relay may be an option:

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The longer the wires between S1 or S2 and the relay, the more likely it is to pick up noise.

There are relays with screw terminals, often with DIN RAIL mount. But then you need space in the ceiling or in another wall box nearby...

If you don't know how to wire this relay, then it's probably safer to ask advice of a certified electrician.

Also, *please* contact support and ask them to diagnose the situation. There are a few possible explanations for instability. They are friendly people and they can have a look at log files that are not available to end users.

[lulu99 1]

I put me in here too. I also have this problem!

 

If they sell the dimmer with the possibility to use it with several switches to make use of alternately switches (Wechselschalter) then it can not be that I can not use it with longer wires. Because if I have the switches connected short to the dimmer, then I don't need 2 switches because they are next to each other.

 

So Fibaro needs to find a solution so we can use these dimmer in our systems. These systems worked before.

 

Regards

[hcke 2]

A few days ago I send a mail to [email protected] but still no response....

[DrNik 0]

Honestly I don't think Fibaro support has a clear-cut answer to this. I've called into support a couple of times to describe the issue and the only suggestions I received were to change a few parameters (max dimming level, ramp rate, etc...) and contact them back if that didn't work.

 

I tried a large number of combinations of the parameter values to no avail, so this case probably needs to be escalated to engineering...

 

 

cheers,

Nik.

[lulu99 1]

I can set a lower max brightness dimmer level, so instead of 83% I set 50%. But when I push a switch, light is still going to max intensity. It does not care about the value I set in the max brightness dimmer field.

 

Regards

[petergebruers 1,268]

I can set a lower max brightness dimmer level, so instead of 83% I set 50%. But when I push a switch, light is still going to max intensity. It does not care about the value I set in the max brightness dimmer field.

 

Regards

I bet your dimmer picks up noise on S1. The noise can come from other sources, but also from the very act of switching on the load. So it acts as if you pushed that S1 button. Can have the effect of dim up, dim down, switch on or switch off. Would that explain your observations? What did support say about this?

[Alexandra 7]

I solved that problem for myself.
I modified the cabling in the wall tubes in that way:
I had three momentary switches parallel in one circuit.
The current carrying cabels where not much but less than 20 meters.
That lead to the flash on and of problem.
I separated the circuits for the switches. The switch farthest away has now it's own circuit connected to Sx and S1.
The two others are connected parallel to Sx and S2 and I activated 3-way switch function.
I kept the return leads from the switches as short as possible.
Quite some work but now it works perfect.

 

I think the safest way is to connect the output of every (momentary) switch directly to the Input(s) of the dimmer.
 

[petergebruers 1,268]

Thanks for sharing! I hope you can finally enjoy the new dimmer!

[RuudStakenburg 0]

Dear forum members,

I read this debate with great interest, because I have the same question with which this discussion has begun. Will the dimmer 2 module work when I use the same connection circuit as used by the 2x1.5 kWh switch?

In my situation, I have a hotel circuit over 3 floors, B.g.g. 1st floor and attic,

 

Switch 1 has a phase wire to the com of the switch, then there go 2x a link leads to the cross switch on the 1st floor and then 2x a link leads to the final switch, the lights are connected to the com of this last switch. I would also like to put the dimmer on this floor. I have a phase and neutral wire in these wall box.

 

The manual indicates that the SX and S1 / S2 should have its own circuit, but this would mean to me that I have to pull a wire from the dimmer to the 1st switch which is two floors below. This is quite a lot of intensive labor and probably not possible at all.

 

Now I read that there are several problems with this dimmer that made me decide to set up a test situation.

(At worst, this would demolish the dimmer 2 module.

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I made above situation on the bench with three momentary switches.

In the first test, I connected everything according to the manual and it worked as described in the manual.

(SX and S1 have its own circuit with multiple switches in this circuit)

 

In the 2nd test I put a phase wire to the com of the first switch. The com of the last switch  to S1 and further only the phase and neutral on the dimmer. The lamp was connected to the variable output of the dimmer 2 module. (This is the situation in my home)

(SX is not connected, and S1 receives a pulse by the switches whit a phase wire connected)

The result was exactly the same as in my previous test

• short pulse = Dimmer function up / down

• Long pulse = on / off

• after switching on (long pulse), the dimmer returns to the last set value even if it has been modified / by a script or manual adjustment of the HC2 it always returns to the last set value

 

There were no difference in test 1 or 2.

 

Now I'm no expert and do not know whether this is going well for a long time, but I have this now three days running to work. this with a script running on the HC2,  and I made  different change in the light intensity by operating one of the pulse switches and all of these without any problems.

 

All wiring were short, here I can not comment on.

[petergebruers 1,268]

(...) All wiring were short, here I can not comment on.

Ah! But that is *the* important factor. To simplify this very long topic, without losing the essence, is not easy. But I'll try.

If you only have one switch and it is < 1-2 meter away from the dimmer, everything should be OK. If the light flashes, or the dimmer misbehaves, then it is something with your load. It's not very likely to come from the wires to the switch. But to remove all doubt, please test with shorter wires (and not running along other wires).

If you have a switch > 10 meter away from the dimmer and wires to S1 run along neutral, live and/or output of the dimmer, you will almost certainly have problems. Best way to describe the issues is that the dimmer seems to have a life of its own: dimming up or down after you switch it on or dim it. Hence the title of this topic: "... light goes off after less than 1 second". It's like someone pushes, or holds, the button. Behind the scenes, that is almost certainly what is happening. Signals jump the wires, as soon as you release the switch, so it registers a "click" or "hold".

Anything between 1 and 10 meter is difficult to predict. I have no issues with 4 meter (in the wall) and also no issues with 10 m, but that's a test setup with some cabling on my bench. Unfortunately if have not found a way to measure anything. For the technically inclined: in my opinion the main mechanism is "capacitive coupling".

Until now, the best solution is to add a relay, between the FGD-212 and the switches, if you are certain that it's caused by the wiring system.

It's best to contact support. Not that I want them to work extra, but because they can have a look at to log files of your HomeCenter. The FGD-212 can send alarms for over-current, over and under-voltage. So it's worth contacting them.

[petergebruers 1,268]

(..)(At worst, this would demolish the dimmer 2 module.(...)

Please always work in a safe, responsible manner when making 230 V setups. "Test setup" suggest to me: more opportunities to touch live wires, short circuit, ..., but of course I may be wrong! In that case, I apologize for being overprotective.

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That said: FGD-212 dimmer input is well protected, you won't succeed in destroying it. Also, overloading the dimmer won't kill it. For example: connecting a 500 W halogen bulb, it may appear that nothing happens, because the dimmer detects the overload and switches off! The only thing that I haven't tried is shorting it out, while it's "on". And I'm not going to try that.

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[RuudStakenburg 0]

@ petergebruers

 

Thanks for beaning overprotective but I love my life so I inserted a fuse and making sure not being able to touch any live wiring.  I’m not a expert but know wat I’m doing.

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I will setup the test next week again and will insert long wiring to see wats happened. I’m able to measure some possibility’s  

I keep you posted