Home Center 3 is comming ?

[fingusio 12]

Hello

 

I heard some news that new Home Center 3 comming in first quarter 2020.

 

Any other info someone have ?

Edited October 7, 2019 by fingusio

[Kage 37]

BTW wat is changed at the new LUA

[petergebruers 1,268]

2 hours ago, Piotr Bojko said:

Finally hc3 will have something that is already on open source free hubs for years.

LOL - Indeed.

 

From now on I'll post "this feature already exists on open source" each time I post something on this forum, that will save you a lot of typing.

 

Or put it in my signature: "disclaimer, features I talk about likely exist on open source"

[petergebruers 1,268]

2 hours ago, Piotr Bojko said:

Finally hc3 will have something that is already on open source free hubs for years.

By the way, if you use open source, you can help Justin and me improve OpenZWave:

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

I think there are 79 open issues at the moment, we appreciate every contribution

[Piotr Bojko 28]

22 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

From now on I'll post "this feature already exists on open source" each time I post something on this forum, that will save you a lot of typing.

 

Sorry for my post - some emotions were coming out  . I will try to be more constructive. 

 

Having an abstraction for each type of device which let you treat z-wave thing and virtual device/app (whatever it is called) the same way it is one of advantage point for me and my move away from fibaro hubs. Having this feature in HC3 is a good path and I understand now why new Home Center apps is lacking support for so much devices... Because it wouldn't need to support it with HC3 - new hub will abstract them for the phone/tablets apps.

 

This leads me to an analogie of Iphones & Androids. HC3 reminds an Iphone having new features which are not so new in a broader world :). And this was my deepest trigger of emotions made me write my previous post.

 

No hard feelings, thx for the irony about  (not)being constructive

[petergebruers 1,268]

6 minutes ago, Piotr Bojko said:

Sorry for my post - some emotions were coming out  . I will try to be more constructive. 

 

No need to apologize for anything, what you've said is 100% true, and your comment really made me laugh and think: "sure that's true, it is not a miracle in an absolute sense".

 

I bet a lot of HC2 users have thought... Heck... "Open Source" supports "this" or "that". Now the HC3 catches up some things...

 

So inevitably a part of this community is wondering: HC3 or Open Source? I think it is best I refrain form giving advice, because we al have our preferences and prejudices. But instead I can try to give some facts and let people decide...

 

In hindsight, I see what you mean by "not constructive"  but I think quite the opposite. Science works by looking at the good and the bad things. I did say: "some won't find this exciting".

 

 

[Joep 200]

I see this another way. It’s like what Apple does. Open Source has it, but you have to fiddle and be geeky to get it working.

Fibaro looked at the most used functions and made a nice GUI around it and makes it easy for the user and gives the full toolkit (lua scripting) for the pro. (the last Apple doesn’t do). 
 

If I am correct the HC3 will be a killer controller. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Joep

[Testermax 0]

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is a new tablet app? I liked the layout and color scheme on that one and it looked good on the wallmounted tablet, but it crashed with lots of unhandled exceptions.

The mobile apps I never used (I use home assistant insted).

[jgab 2,641]

10 hours ago, Joep said:

Fibaro looked at the most used functions and made a nice GUI around it and makes it easy for the user and gives the full toolkit (lua scripting) for the pro. (the last Apple doesn’t do). 

I'm not sure I fully agree about that statement. Apple (and Philips Hue for that matter) makes a clear distinction between users and developers. Users are presented with a UI (on the phone) where they can do simpler tasks (including defining simpler automation tasks - similar to fibaro's block scenes I guess)

Apple, Philips (and most other consumer companies in this space) then provide powerful APIs (and in Apple's case even development environment) so developer can create more advanced applications that users can benefit from (my younger son just turned his room with Hue lamps into a disco with a 3rd party sound app on his phone). The Fibaro market model/positioning is kind of a... mix. Users quite quickly stumble into code when their block scenes don't support what they need. On the other hand, developers don't get the full Lua environment but are sandboxed into an environment without all possibilities they would like to have - because Fibaro can't be sure that it's not getting into the hands of a user that can't code and that person will create a mess causing a lot of support...

[petergebruers 1,268]

10 hours ago, Joep said:

Open Source has it, but you have to fiddle and be geeky to get it working.

You need to invest a lot of time in any system, as soon as you want "to get certain things done" and the question is when you hit a certain threshold of a simple, easy to use system...

 

I mean, if you only  want to "remote control" 10 lamps, go with Ikea or Hue, no need to buy anything else.

 

If you want 100 devices and want to automate HVAC, want security, control multimedia, you are at the other end of the spectrum and I think any system (open or closed source) will require a lot of learning and fiddling as you say.

 

I think Philips Hue (or should I start saying Signify Philips Hue?" clearly got your message when they added Bluetooth to their products in Q4 of 2019, which is no substitute for their bridge or an open source solution, but allows phone users to get started "the easy way" and upgrade when they are ready. Philips said, the dual protocol approach (BT/Zigbee) is still focused on the Zigbee part and hub control, the BT part was added for convenience. This also lead to disappointed customers if they did not read the fine print (limited functionality with BT only), they may still need the Hue bridge (or alternative...)

 

Imho HC3 tries to strike a balance... Attract new users with nice GUI, block scenes, ... But still allow complex scenes and devices.

 

But of course, as  @Piotr Bojko pointed out succinctly, "this feature already exists on open source"... Sorry Piotr, I won't keep doing this again but I think it is appropriate to mention that.

 

Though I would say you have a bit more responsibilities with open source eg make sure you know how to upgrad, backup, restore, ... Maybe you need command line interface? If something goes wrong, you probably do. But then again, HC2/HC3 do not have a command line interface, you'll have to call support instead? Which is more convenient? I don't know, you have to decide.

 

10 hours ago, Joep said:

it easy for the user and gives the full toolkit (lua scripting) for the pro. (the last Apple doesn’t do). 

 

As @jgab points out, apple is closed source but they encourage you to become a developer and you'll get a SDK for every possible platform. I think you mean they do not have anything between end-user and developer? Like "power user"?

 

1 hour ago, Testermax said:

Does anyone know if there is a new tablet app?

I don't think so, but the 1.6 release of the "new app" is compatible with HC2 and HC3

 

26 minutes ago, jgab said:

The Fibaro market model/positioning is kind of a... mix. Users quite quickly stumble into code when their block scenes don't support what they need. On the other hand, developers don't get the full Lua environment but are sandboxed into an environment without all possibilities they would like to have - because Fibaro can't be sure that it's not getting into the hands of a user that can't code and that person will create a mess causing a lot of support...

I agree, a "HC3 plugin developer" would have a less restricted environment but I am not sure if that would be open to end-users under certain conditions. The restriction is annoying for pro users because you know it exists, but you cannot have it.

 

In this case, Open Source is the "(Non) Plus Ultra" - fork it make your own! No restrictions! Then contribute back to the community.

 

Which brings me to this:

 

1 hour ago, Testermax said:

The mobile apps I never used (I use home assistant insted).

 

Good! Once you know how to use "Lovelace" interface of HASS, there is no way back, you build your own BUI!

 

Unfortunately, the HASS - HC interface does not work with HC3 and although I have contributed a tiny bit to this integration I have no plans to work on this anytime soon. The API has not changed much so it might be doable...

[Lambik 194]

21 hours ago, A.Socha said:

Thank you I'm fine

My answer is yes ?

Please login or register to see this link.

Will this also be implemented for the HC2?

[A.Socha 133]

6 minut temu, Lambik napisał:

Will this also be implemented for the HC2?

It will not

[jgab 2,641]

56 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

As @jgab points out, apple is closed source but they encourage you to become a developer and you'll get a SDK for every possible platform. I think you mean they do not have anything between end-user and developer? Like "power user"?

Well, that kind brings me to my viewpoint, it's neither for consumers - they don't get features in the pace they expect and see on other platforms - nor is it for developers because the environment is too restricted.

It's for "installers". 

That GTM model is probably an ok business, and a way for fibaro to get a channel into the market. Like the old KNX model.

However, my belief is that this market (who provide the house brain) will be run as a consumer device business at the end (and you may have several). Houses will come with built-in remote control points for the infrastructure (power, water, heating etc), not just physical. And then the consumer brings in the brain that suits his needs - and its sold as a consumer device - like your tablet or micro-wave, vacuum cleaner. (That's the vision of Apple I guess)

"Power users" needs would be provided for by increasingly powerful apps connected to whatever ecosystem that "brain" has.

 

Sometimes consumer still wants to trust the "intelligence" to another system (it's all about what the consumer thinks works best for her)

Ex. telling Alexa or Siri your "home automation rules"

Alexa; make sure to turn off the lamp in the bathroom if it's empty for more than 5min

Alexa: turn on the X-mas tree just before sunset on weekdays and an hour before on weekends.

Alexa: make it look like I'm home when when I'm out travelling... 

Alexa: giving me graph of the activity in the house while I was away...

Alexa: Tell me the average temperature in the cellar.  "Sorry, I can't do that, you don't have a temp sensor in the cellular, should I order one for you? I know a good brand..."

(It's just like having your own little "installer" in the house - supporting you with all your use-cases  )

 

Then the question is if Alexa defines the rules and the box executes them or the box is just a simple device interface to be used by the rule engine inside Alexa. (or Alexa talks directly to the house control points)

Edited January 24, 2020 by jgab

[Lambik 194]

1 minute ago, A.Socha said:

It will not

Thank you for responding @A.Socha, it's appreciated.

 

Can you clarify if the HC2 will be maintained? And is there an EOL (End Of Life) timespan known?

[10der 832]

19 minutes ago, Lambik said:

Will this also be implemented for the HC2?

 Just forget about HC2  

[Lambik 194]

2 minutes ago, 10der said:

 Just forget about HC2  

When? 'Soon' ? ?

[A.Socha 133]

12 minut temu, jgab napisał:

Sometimes consumer still wants to trust the "intelligence" to another system (it's all about what the consumer thinks works best for her)

Ex. Alexa or Siri.

Alexa; turn off the lamp in the bathroom if it's empty for more than 5min

Alexa: turn on the X-mas tree just before sunset.

Alexa: make it look like I'm home when when I'm out travelling... 

Alexa: giving me graph of the activity in the house while I was away...

Alexa: Tell me the average temperature in the cellar.  "Sorry, I can't do that, you don't have a temp sensor in the cellular, should I order one for you? I know a good brand..."

(It's just like having your own little "installer" in the house - supporting you with all your use-cases  )

 

Then the question is if Alexa defines the rules and the box executes them or the box is just a simple device interface to be used by the rule engine inside Alexa. (or Alexa talks directly to the house control points)

Fibaro is ready for that but Amazon, Google is not; They are on stage adding devices like shutter sensors, it will take them more time when they will use more complex commands

11 minut temu, Lambik napisał:

Thank you for responding @A.Socha, it's appreciated.

 

Can you clarify if the HC2 will be maintained?

Yes it will be

[10der 832]

11 minutes ago, Lambik said:

Thank you for responding @A.Socha, it's appreciated.

 

Can you clarify if the HC2 will be maintained? And is there an EOL (End Of Life) timespan known?

 

Please login or register to see this spoiler.

 

[Lambik 194]

3 minutes ago, 10der said:

 

Please login or register to see this spoiler.

So there is hope the HC2 will rise from the dead??

[10der 832]

11 minutes ago, Lambik said:

So there is hope the HC2 will rise from the dead??

It will not (с)

[Lambik 194]

3 minutes ago, 10der said:

It will not (с)

Please login or register to see this link.