MS6 including as ID 0 or not including correctly

[AutoFrank 372]

hi,

I bought a bunch of MS6 devices

Some included okay and some are proving a challenge 

I've noticed that some half include (ie I might get temp and motion but no humidity)

I also noticed that some are including as ID 0

 

I tried different power supplies, different cables, close to the HC2 and not so close

I tried the factory reset (hold include button down for 20 seconds) 

 

I just trying to figure out if I missed something or just got a bad batch

 

Thanks

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by AutoFrank

[TRicky 84]

@AutoFrank, Checked the serials numbers today.

Where your's starts with an 'A' mine starts with an 'C'.

It looks like mine ar 'newer'. I received them last week but don't know when my supplier received them.

 

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[AutoFrank 372]

22 minutes ago, TRicky said:

@AutoFrank, Checked the serials numbers today.

Where your's starts with an 'A' mine starts with an 'C'.

It looks like mine ar 'newer'. I received them last week but don't know when my supplier received them.

 

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interesting - what revision are you seeing in the HC2 web UI

Is it 1.7 on the General tab of the devices created

 

I bought 4 initially start of dec and all included first time and fully.

They worked as I expected so I ordered 4 more - I think 2 of these started to give me problems

I then ordered a further 6 (received last week) and that's where the real challenges started with the 'ID 0' issue during inclusion but then nothing showing up in the device list or it would look like it was including okay and then only a temp or humidity device would show up and then a hard or soft reconfig would bring in the rest

 

I'm reasonable sure that all are 1.7 (certainly the ones I've included already) and what I have left are newer

Once they are included they then operate as expected with one exception - I'm getting high temp alarms on some of them but I think a quick tweak of the parameters will solve that

 

The only trend I can see is that a combination or factory resets and leaving them sit powered up for a while before including also seems ot help. 

 

Of my 14  I have 10 included and working okay (apart from temp) so I'm hoping the last 4 shouldn't take much longer

Edited January 12, 2017 by AutoFrank

[chaicka 195]

16 hours ago, AutoFrank said:

@TRicky @chaicka @Sankotronic

 

Okay 

I gave this another go this evening and I managed to get another 2 included but I cant seem to see any pattern

The ones now that have included successfully are all at 1.7 and what I have left are all newer

I assume that 1.07 and 1.7 are the same thing ...

it support OTA FW updates it is saying that it is up to date...

 

 

Only one included fully - the other successfully included the temp sensor and I have to do reconfigure and it worked then

The biggest problem is that they are including as a ID 0  (see screenshot) _ i currently have 4 doing this.

I checked the box and there is nothing of use on the label

 

my gut tells me there is nothing wrong with the sensors and its either 4.11 or the power supply

 

all ideas fully embraced

 

 

 

 

 

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Looks like they changed the label on the box. It looks different from my batch (quite some time ago). Yes, in Home Center it will show as 1.7 (but based on Aeotec's support portal) which is same as firmware version 1.07.

 

It is definitely odd that the ID after inclusion is marked as "0". This kind of fault is likely on the Home Center, not the device. Log a support ticket with Fibaro to have a look what is causing assignment of ID 0 and repeatedly for few devices.

[chaicka 195]

Let me dig my old post. I think I managed to figure out how to interpret the serial number into week number and year manufactured.

 

Here it is:

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Edited January 12, 2017 by chaicka
Found Post

[chaicka 195]

2 hours ago, TRicky said:

@AutoFrank, Checked the serials numbers today.

Where your's starts with an 'A' mine starts with an 'C'.

It looks like mine ar 'newer'. I received them last week but don't know when my supplier received them.

 

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All 4 of these are manufactured in 2016 week 23 (6th-12th June).

"C" may denote assembly line or plant. Not sure. But the two I have working well are "C" as well. The UAT unit I had to return was "A".

 

Yours is not newer than Frank's. His is manufactured in 2016 week 42 (17th-23th October).

Edited January 12, 2017 by chaicka

[AutoFrank 372]

34 minutes ago, chaicka said:

Let me dig my old post. I think I managed to figure out how to interpret the serial number into week number and year manufactured.

 

Here it is:

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Sorry not sure how to interpret it ...

 

from your post

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one of my serial numbers is A 01011642001581

 

Any idea when it was made _ purchased mine off via amazon at 

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[chaicka 195]

1 minute ago, AutoFrank said:

 

Sorry not sure how to interpret it ...

 

from your post

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one of my serial numbers is A 01011642001581

 

Any idea when it was made _ purchased mine off via amazon at 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

 

2016 week 42 (17th-23th October)

 

Still do not know what does A and C stands for. But generally, out of 3 units I got my hands on, the one with A was not behaving correctly. I will look out for C ones if I am going to get anymore of this MS6.

Edited January 12, 2017 by chaicka

[AutoFrank 372]

19 minutes ago, chaicka said:

 

2016 week 42 (17th-23th October)

 

Still do not know what does A and C stands for. But generally, out of 3 units I got my hands on, the one with A was not behaving correctly. I will look out for C ones if I am going to get anymore of this MS6.

 

That's interesting 

I must take a look and see from my 14 how many A and how many C and see if this is related to the inclusion issues I'm experiencing...

 

Do you know if there is an 'technical/functional/difference' between the 2 types?

 

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

• I don't think "OTA updates" means "with Fibaro". I think it means "with Aeotec tools". From the Aeotec website: "Some gateways will support firmware upgrades over-the-air (OTA) and have MultiSensor 6's firmware upgrades packaged as part of their platform. For those that don't yet support such upgrades, MultiSensor 6's firmware can be upgraded using Z-Stick from Aeotec (or any other Z-Wave compliant Z-Wave USB Adapters from any manufacturer) and Microsoft Windows.". The latter is what I do.
• Can you include other devices?
• I think, inclusion might fail if Z-Wave network is very busy, but that's difficult to tell. I'd disable scenes, turn off sensor. Maybe. Long shot.
• Version numbers are not to be interpreted as one decimal number. I'll post some info in a separate topic.
• Try to power it on one battery, please put the battery in the bay at the other side of the button (so not the one next to the button), instead of USB.
• Issues with MS6... probably... they differ a lot from Fibaro FGMS, maybe you are used to that one? For battery powered situations, I prefer FGMS. That's probably an opinion and not scientific fact. Though you might be able to dig up some facts too.
• When I bought my sensor it ran 1.04 and came in a different box. It now runs 1.08 and I 'am trying al kinds of things to get decent battery life and expected performance. It's a hobby. So no wise words (yet).

[AutoFrank 372]

25 minutes ago, chaicka said:

 

2016 week 42 (17th-23th October)

 

Still do not know what does A and C stands for. But generally, out of 3 units I got my hands on, the one with A was not behaving correctly. I will look out for C ones if I am going to get anymore of this MS6.

 

a quick look at the serial number in the HC2 is not good - They are all showing as 2.230077922728862e+44 as the serial number in the advanced tab of the device

 

 looking like I'll need to dig into the my bin and get out the boxes

 

 

 

[AutoFrank 372]

7 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

• I don't think "OTA updates" means "with Fibaro". I think it means "with Aeotec tools". From the Aeotec website: "Some gateways will support firmware upgrades over-the-air (OTA) and have MultiSensor 6's firmware upgrades packaged as part of their platform. For those that don't yet support such upgrades, MultiSensor 6's firmware can be upgraded using Z-Stick from Aeotec (or any other Z-Wave compliant Z-Wave USB Adapters from any manufacturer) and Microsoft Windows.". The latter is what I do.
• Can you include other devices?
• I think, inclusion might fail if Z-Wave network is very busy, but that's difficult to tell. I'd disable scenes, turn off sensor. Maybe. Long shot.
• Version numbers are not to be interpreted as one decimal number. I'll post some info in a separate topic.
• Try to power it on one battery, please put the battery in the bay at the other side of the button (so not the one next to the button), instead of USB.
• Issues with MS6... probably... they differ a lot from Fibaro FGMS, maybe you are used to that one? For battery powered situations, I prefer FGMS. That's probably an opinion and not scientific fact. Though you might be able to dig up some facts too.
• When I bought my sensor it ran 1.04 and came in a different box. It now runs 1.08 and I 'am trying al kinds of things to get decent battery life and expected performance. It's a hobby. So no wise words (yet).

 

Thanks @petergebruers

 

No issues including other devices and nothing going dead ad the HC2 is running very well other that this inclusion issues

I don't have much experience with the fibaro version, I just have one but was swayed towards the MS6 because it can be 'mains' powered as I'm trying to eliminate any battery power devices from my whole setup. ( I never had a lot but am down to about 3 at this stage and I'll get rid of them with some work with a couple of universal binary sensors.)

 

i'm reasonable sure that the MS6 code is uptodate - The HC2 tells me its up to date and assuming the 1.7 (on the HC2) and 1.07 on the aeotec website are the same.

 

I wonder if this is down to my impatience...

What I mean is that when a MS6 is added it is actually adding 6 devices (5 active) and the zwave network presumably morks out and updates its routing tables. 

Over the last few nights I have 6 on the table on the kitchen (near my HC2) and I am adding one after the other and when I am waiting for something I may take one and power it up in its final location as I have all the wiring done already.

i'm used to adding 3 or 4 fibaro relays  in one go which always works smoothly and can be done fast with no impact.

 

I wonder is the HC having an issue including all the devices and then updating the zwave network to account for the new position of the devices in a relatively short period of time or does somebody know how I could rule that in/out ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

• Firmware 1.7 = 1.07 = 1.007 but not equal to 1.70. Firmware 1.60 is more recent than 1.7. And 1.6 is older than 1.7.
• I have this drill, without using my brain, to include battery operated devices. Click "add", do the include-button-dance on the device. Take a sip from my beer. Do the wake-me-up-button dance on the device. Take a sip and think about any nice subject or object (but don't tell me). Wake it up again. Think again. Refresh browser. If it is still unconfigured, or ID = 0, or has no slaves, ... frown and try again. I think the beer is what matters.
• A device scans the network when it is included, it takes anything between 10-60 seconds. The other devices don't care and don't do anything. The internet is based on routing tables, Z-Wave is not. Z-Wave is "source routed". Devices only know their neighbours.
• FGMS has better battery life than MS6, used as a motion/temp/light sensor in my TV room. Not contradicting you that USB power is better, just saying you might like FGMS.

[AutoFrank 372]

2 hours ago, petergebruers said:

• Firmware 1.7 = 1.07 = 1.007 but not equal to 1.70. Firmware 1.60 is more recent than 1.7. And 1.6 is older than 1.7.
• I have this drill, without using my brain, to include battery operated devices. Click "add", do the include-button-dance on the device. Take a sip from my beer. Do the wake-me-up-button dance on the device. Take a sip and think about any nice subject or object (but don't tell me). Wake it up again. Think again. Refresh browser. If it is still unconfigured, or ID = 0, or has no slaves, ... frown and try again. I think the beer is what matters.
• A device scans the network when it is included, it takes anything between 10-60 seconds. The other devices don't care and don't do anything. The internet is based on routing tables, Z-Wave is not. Z-Wave is "source routed". Devices only know their neighbours.
• FGMS has better battery life than MS6, used as a motion/temp/light sensor in my TV room. Not contradicting you that USB power is better, just saying you might like FGMS.

thanks

-- too late on the FGMS as I have bought 14 of the MS6

 

And you hit the nail on the head - I forgot the beer......                            

[TRicky 84]

Taking a zip of my beer 

 

@petergebruers your MS6 is running FW 1.8, the Beta version. Is that running well?

I checked the possibility of upgrading the firmware of the MS6 OTA.

But you seem (I think) have to have an AEOTec Z-Wave stick to do the trick. I have a Zwave-me stick and couldn't get it done OTA.

 

Taking a zip of my beer as suggested by @petergebruers

 

@chaicka, good interpretation / investigation of production months/years.

 

What's also is very strange, also mentioned by @AutoFrank, is the serial number of the MS6. XXXX to the power 44; that's a large number!

And as Frank says/does, I normally also add devices in the quick way and it always works fine. Learning mode,  activate and half a minute later I'm done.

 

But my biggest concern now are my 'oldest' AEON 4in1 sensors. Since the update to 4.110 they all are acting strange or don't respond normally anymore.

I got a few of them working normally again after a new setting of the parameters and a soft reconfiguration but also a few of them still don't respond.

The motion sensor keeps telling me: Never activated......

 

Oops, forgot my zip of my beer 

 

As @AutoFrank does I also click the HC2-wizard always away, but this shouldn't make any difference I assume? Otherwise should that be quite an issue in my opinion.....

 

Anyway, I finish my beer and will go to bed.

Greetz from the white, snow covered NL

 

 

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[petergebruers 1,261]

• MS6 on batteries & 1.08 is running fine, reporting lumen and motion in a real life setup. It is connected to a special test rig, to show me the power consumption. The rig is actually an LED connected to a current mirror, so I literally see when it is awake, transmitting or sleeping. I also use rechargeable batteries to get an indication of the power consumption. And, I'm toying with the parameters. Unfortunately, it all takes time. Preliminary conclusions are: keep wake-up > 3600 s, carefully select *what* you want to report (p 100 - p 113) and *when* (keep interval >=600  as mentioned in the 1.08 release notes ) and don't use the template. Download manual info from Z-Wave alliance website. I said "preliminary" because all this testing takes an insane amount of time. Maybe the best advice: exclude it, use USB power and forget most of what I said...
• Upgrading MS6 the safe way, I did it like this with a Aeon stick, but it according to the release notes it should work with other Z-Wave (Plus) sticks. Exclude the sensor. Download firmware on PC. Plug in stick. Select firmware tool to COM port until tool finds the stick. Include the MS6 on your temporary network (stick + PC tool = mini private Z-Wave network + mini software to manage it). Upgrade. Exclude form temp network, and include on HC2.
• I don't have issues with 6 x "MultiSensor" (old round model, probably firmware 1.18). My 1 x MultiSensor Gen 5 (newer round model, probably firmware 1.2 - it has a template, but the template is "blank" so don't use it) hasn't reported motion for about 3 months. I only use the humidity part of that sensor, so I hadn't noticed. I tried to update p4 and p5 and the new value doesn't seem to store. I'll investigate!
• "2.230077922728862e+44 as the serial number" might be a 32 bit number and in that case it might mean "Infinity" often used as "not set" or "binary all ones". So possibly the firmware of the MS6 doesn't report it or it hasn't been set. So it might not be an inclusion error at all. I wonder if you could get a different view of the serial number using Aeon tools, see my point about upgrading the sensor. I remember lots of functions, lots of information, but didn't pay attention to serial number.

[AutoFrank 372]

29 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

• MS6 on batteries & 1.08 is running fine, reporting lumen and motion in a real life setup. It is connected to a special test rig, to show me the power consumption. The rig is actually an LED connected to a current mirror, so I literally see when it is awake, transmitting or sleeping. I also use rechargeable batteries to get an indication of the power consumption. And, I'm toying with the parameters. Unfortunately, it all takes time. Preliminary conclusions are: keep wake-up > 3600 s, carefully select *what* you want to report (p 100 - p 113) and *when* (keep interval >=600  as mentioned in the 1.08 release notes ) and don't use the template. Download manual info from Z-Wave alliance website. I said "preliminary" because all this testing takes an insane amount of time. Maybe the best advice: exclude it, use USB power and forget most of what I said...
• Upgrading MS6 the safe way, I did it like this with a Aeon stick, but it according to the release notes it should work with other Z-Wave (Plus) sticks. Exclude the sensor. Download firmware on PC. Plug in stick. Select firmware tool to COM port until tool finds the stick. Include the MS6 on your temporary network (stick + PC tool = mini private Z-Wave network + mini software to manage it). Upgrade. Exclude form temp network, and include on HC2.
• I don't have issues with 6 x "MultiSensor" (old round model, probably firmware 1.18). My 1 x MultiSensor Gen 5 (newer round model, probably firmware 1.2 - it has a template, but the template is "blank" so don't use it) hasn't reported motion for about 3 months. I only use the humidity part of that sensor, so I hadn't noticed. I tried to update p4 and p5 and the new value doesn't seem to store. I'll investigate!
• "2.230077922728862e+44 as the serial number" might be a 32 bit number and in that case it might mean "Infinity" often used as "not set" or "binary all ones". So possibly the firmware of the MS6 doesn't report it or it hasn't been set. So it might not be an inclusion error at all. I wonder if you could get a different view of the serial number using Aeon tools, see my point about upgrading the sensor. I remember lots of functions, lots of information, but didn't pay attention to serial number.

 

Thanks @petergebruers

 

I got a response from Aeotec to my no inclusion/part inclusion issue

 

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They confirmed that 1.7 and 1.07 are the same and its the current rev

 

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

Regarding "MultiSensor Gen 5": toyed with p 3, 4 and 5 and can't get "motion" to work. Tried unofficial firmware 1.3 released last November, can't make that work either. This sensor is now punished and has to sit on my bench for at least one month.  ...

[AutoFrank 372]

I've going over and back with an eng in aeotec - impressive since I just logged the ticket 2 days ago

 

I decided to put the summary in one place.....

The sensors should automatically start to appear as the sensor reports start coming in. If they aren't showing initially when you first pair them, try setting these parameter settings and have them report faster to see if the sensors appear after a report is sent:

Parameter 111 [4 byte dec] = 30 //report all sensors every 30 seconds (apply changes to the master) - This will work if they are USB powered.

V1.07 and V1.7 are the same. Just displayed differently and is the latest rev

Beta 1.08 available (thanks  @petergebruers ) and resolves the following two bugs (amongst others I assume)

Parameter 111-113 report interval bug

- If sensors are reporting around 4 minutes, it is possible that the sensor may send the signals 4 times in a row causing the battery to be used rapidly (users who have done this have seen battery drain within 2 weeks). (bug)

USB Power - Can no longer report sensors at a rate of 1 second, the minimum report is now 240 seconds. (with 1.08 it allows reporting every second)

How to upgrade to beta 1.08 - zwave usb adapter such as a z stick, uzb1 stick, or smartstick. Typically any zwave stick that conforms to zwave standards and a windows pc platform.

Difference between A & C in the serial number -  For model numbers, A stands for US frequency while C stands for EU frequency. B would be for AU.

 

 @petergebruers you were correct 

 

but this is worrying ...

I gone back to see how they are working with my system at all.... - I think all of them are A serial numbers 

I haven't integrated them extensively yet but the motion sensor in the kitchen is turning on the light when we walk in 

 

I would have thought that they wouldn't be able to function with my HC2 at all

 

the freq on the label would seem to suggest that it a euro zwave device but the serial number doesn't add up then...

 

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Edited January 13, 2017 by AutoFrank

[chaicka 195]

3 hours ago, petergebruers said:

• MS6 on batteries & 1.08 is running fine, reporting lumen and motion in a real life setup. It is connected to a special test rig, to show me the power consumption. The rig is actually an LED connected to a current mirror, so I literally see when it is awake, transmitting or sleeping. I also use rechargeable batteries to get an indication of the power consumption. And, I'm toying with the parameters. Unfortunately, it all takes time. Preliminary conclusions are: keep wake-up > 3600 s, carefully select *what* you want to report (p 100 - p 113) and *when* (keep interval >=600  as mentioned in the 1.08 release notes ) and don't use the template. Download manual info from Z-Wave alliance website. I said "preliminary" because all this testing takes an insane amount of time. Maybe the best advice: exclude it, use USB power and forget most of what I said...
• Upgrading MS6 the safe way, I did it like this with a Aeon stick, but it according to the release notes it should work with other Z-Wave (Plus) sticks. Exclude the sensor. Download firmware on PC. Plug in stick. Select firmware tool to COM port until tool finds the stick. Include the MS6 on your temporary network (stick + PC tool = mini private Z-Wave network + mini software to manage it). Upgrade. Exclude form temp network, and include on HC2.
• I don't have issues with 6 x "MultiSensor" (old round model, probably firmware 1.18). My 1 x MultiSensor Gen 5 (newer round model, probably firmware 1.2 - it has a template, but the template is "blank" so don't use it) hasn't reported motion for about 3 months. I only use the humidity part of that sensor, so I hadn't noticed. I tried to update p4 and p5 and the new value doesn't seem to store. I'll investigate!
• "2.230077922728862e+44 as the serial number" might be a 32 bit number and in that case it might mean "Infinity" often used as "not set" or "binary all ones". So possibly the firmware of the MS6 doesn't report it or it hasn't been set. So it might not be an inclusion error at all. I wonder if you could get a different view of the serial number using Aeon tools, see my point about upgrading the sensor. I remember lots of functions, lots of information, but didn't pay attention to serial number.

 

Your preliminary conclusions "keep wake-up > 3600 s, carefully select *what* you want to report (p 100 - p 113) and *when* (keep interval >=600  as mentioned in the 1.08 release notes )" is very similar to how I have fine tuned two of my MS6 running on batts though they are on 1.07. This is how I managed to squeeze 3+ months out of them running on batts.

[AutoFrank 372]

Just now, chaicka said:

 

Your preliminary conclusions "keep wake-up > 3600 s, carefully select *what* you want to report (p 100 - p 113) and *when* (keep interval >=600  as mentioned in the 1.08 release notes )" is very similar to how I have fine tuned two of my MS6 running on batts though they are on 1.07. This is how I managed to squeeze 3+ months out of them running on batts.

 

Trying to learn a bit more...

 

Am I correct in assuming that the the sensor will trigger immediately (once motion, lux, temp thresholds are exceeded)  and the wake up interval has nothing to do with that ?,

and that the wake up interval designates how frequently the sensor to "check-in" with the the zwave network/controller, confirm it's still part of the network if it hasn't been triggered in the last wake-up interval...