Home Center 3 is comming ?

[fingusio 12]

Hello

 

I heard some news that new Home Center 3 comming in first quarter 2020.

 

Any other info someone have ?

Edited October 7, 2019 by fingusio

[kevin 33]

3 hours ago, petergebruers said:

I am a beta tester and I am not allowed to talk about it.

When are you allowed to tell us more about your experience with the HC3 and the software?

[Bodyart 229]

12 hours ago, jgab said:

What I seen so far (disclaimer, I'm not a beta tester and I don't own a HC3) are Scenes and VD design decisions that are questionable:

Hi @jgab,

where is it to see Jan?

I also like to watch weird TV shows

 

[Thomasn 77]

On 1/15/2020 at 10:08 PM, tinman said:

I love stupid comment, so let me comment all the stupid comments : if you have wheels from your old VW and wish to use them on your new Ferrari, you will not be able to buy any monting kit. If you build one itself, you will be not able to mount it while driving. If you add additional wheels and hydraulic system to switch to the extra wheels while driving, you might get other issues - and all this is dangerous. There we go, this is how easy is migration from HC2 to HC3.

 

That, sir, is a odd example and perhaps show that ignorance has no limits. You talk about hardware while, for my part, the rest of us is talking about software. If I change car I know the hardware will be different. But what drives the car is gasoline. And it is quite possible to empty the tank on a VW and use the gasoline in a Ferrari. You can even use the gasoline backup (Jerrycan) you have for emergencies. Perhaps, in your case, I have to expand my example so you get it: Gasoline is an acronym for software! You get it? A switch from HC2 to HC3 should be as easy as switching cars and re-using whatever amount of gasoline drives the hardware.

[tinman 1,025]

7 minutes ago, Thomasn said:

 

That, sir, is :::

 

i'm with you, just imagine these 100000 sold HCL/HC2 gateways dying one day, and the 2-5M EUR costs for re-installation. 

It is up to you all to make pressure on Fibaro. Years ago, with changes from 1.x to 3.x and later 4.0/4.1 we had similar situations, it tooks years to get live migration on Fibaro ID page (and for long time the answer was "it is not possible" ), it tooks years to get rid of broken usb stick, all the repair horror (which is on HC3 not an issue anymore). 

 

On the other hand, HC3 is much easier to use for (maybe even 95% of) customers, does support S2 encyption (secure, no lags like with S0 on HC2) and all the other nice things that got (or will get) implemented. For me, HC3 is for new installations and small migrations for now, however we got already first customers who will pay huge reinstallation, just to get stable environment (some of they Paid alredy so much for Troubleshooting, zniffer days, Hardware replacements …).

[PepsiMac 17]

14 hours ago, Sankotronic said:

I still hope that Fibaro will come to some senses and instead of ripping, finally go ahead with improving coding experience on their boxes. I must say that my hope is very small and fragile since Fibaro obviously more care for users that think having possibility to turn something on/off with mobile device or tell it to do something with Google or Alexa is advanced home automation. So sad and pathetic ?

 

@

Please login or register to see this link.

, I am concerned to read your comments as I have depended on several of your scenes and VDs in my system. Your efforts are being very much appreciated by many, I am sure. The impression I get from your post is that the HC3 is more for wireless remote control, not home AUTOMATION, are there are too many such "hubs".

 

Please keep us aware of your thoughts as, without the input of developers such as yourself, many of us would suffer greatly. I, for one, would be interested to know "what next?" as we want systems that automate mundane functions day in, day out, and not to spend more time fine tuning systems than it takes to just operate physical switches.

 

Much Respect, Thank You.

[PepsiMac 17]

4 hours ago, Thomasn said:

That, sir, is a odd example and perhaps show that ignorance has no limits. You talk about hardware while, for my part, the rest of us is talking about software.

 

Thank you for taking the time to provide clarity on concerns I share and have seen expressed by others. I am significantly concerned about the lack of upgrade path.

[cag014 628]

Reading all examples and stories about code migration, makes me wonder why no one thought about third option (beside HW and SW migration).

As we all know there is an option to connect gateways, so your old HC2 could be connected as a gateway to HC3. That means your HC2 will continue to work as usual and you don't need to "unscrew" your devices, but meantime you have an opportunity to take control step by step with HC3 and develop new stuff.

Even today there a lot of users that have few HC2 and HCL, but only one controller is the master and others gateways and it works fine.

Just a thought....

 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by cag014

[master_jo1 9]

4 hours ago, cag014 said:

Reading all examples and stories about code migration, makes me wonder why no one thought about third option (beside HW and SW migration).

As we all know there is an option to connect gateways, so your old HC2 could be connected as a gateway to HC3. That means your HC2 will continue to work as usual and you don't need to "unscrew" your devices, but meantime you have an opportunity to take control step by step with HC3 and develop new stuff.

Even today there a lot of users that have few HC2 and HCL, but only one controller is the master and others gateways and it works fine.

Just a thought....

 

 

 

 

thx @cag014 we have same thoughts, but different described.

 

21 hours ago, master_jo1 said:

Because the migration from HC2 to HC3 is probably not possible:
 Can an option be considered to use the HC3 as a master and the HC2 as a slave, all controllable via one mobile APP, so the old Setup can be still working on HC2 and also maintained and new projects can be started with the HC3?
Maybe this will be a Solution as a Workaround.

 

 

 

[Testermax 0]

For beta-testers:

Is there any improvements on the sonos and philips hue integration?

Will the philips hue bulbs be recognized as lights?

 

Is the external API changed or does it still work against home assistant?

Edited January 18, 2020 by Testermax

[codowd 7]

On 1/8/2020 at 1:43 AM, D-Vine said:

Most important of all will the software of fibaro be stable.

Can we upgrade easy from HC2 to HC3?

 

It would be nice if they make plugins again so our top developers can use it.

 

 

This.  

 

I have had to hand-code and buy other controllers (skaro automation-bridge) to get support for devices in my home thanks to Fibaro deciding to not support 3rd party plugins and stop developing their own. Sonos, Harmony Remote, Daikin air conditioners, intercoms, Lifx lights, Hue, Alexa etc. etc.the list goes on. 

 

Fibaro - I want home automation, not just to turn some lights on and off (I could do that in 1978 using X10).

 

[mal 0]

14 minutes ago, codowd said:

Fibaro - I want home automation, not just to turn some lights on and off (I could do that in 1978 using X10).

 

exactly ... the lack of templates for non-fibaro devices is more of a problem to me ... I am rather hoping that Fibaro can concentrate on that now the major development of the new device is over ... otherwise I will have to move to a less elegant (multiple controllers and apps) if easier approach...nest for heating, Yale for security and look again at aeotec devices for z-wave ... any thoughts ?

[petergebruers 1,264]

19 hours ago, kevin said:

When are you allowed to tell us more about your experience with the HC3 and the software?

Beta testers sign an NDA and are allowed to talk when fibaro says so. This is usually after the product gets an official release and goes on sale. I have been a beta tester of eg "Dimmer 2" aka FGD-212 and "The Button". In each case, the final product sold was not 100% identical to the one I got for testing. So it makes sense not to talk too much about a beta product. A last minute change caused by beta testing was an improved reset procedure on the Fibaro D/W sensor second generation. Both another user and I independently discovered the sensor was still too easy to accidentally reset, something that happens quite often on the first generation D/W sensor. So there was a last minute change in reset procedure.

 

Th HC3 is in this respect a weird product: it gets a kind of "banner advertisement" or should I say video on the fibaro.com site with some vague specs, it is mentioned in a catalog and available for pre-order from some resellers.

 

AFAIK the communication ban has not been lifted...

 

16 hours ago, tinman said:

For me, HC3 is for new installations and small migrations for now

Okay, so since @tinman has decided to leak information, and many users seem to be concerned about migration I can tell you this the state of the current beta:

 

• No restore of FW 4 backup so effectively no migration possible that way. @tinman has explained why and I agree with him, this is a "Silabs" issue because there is no migration path of the controller memory. As an end user you probably do not care who is to blame. But I'd go as far as to defend Fibaro here.
• The "gateway" button exists, but if you add your HC2 it says "FW 4 is not compatible". The "gateway" function is not standard Z-Wave but purely Fibaro and meant to make management of multiple HC easy. I cannot tell if this function will ever be compatible with FW4 so your safe bet is "no". I also cannot tell you if it works with 2 x HC3 at the moment because I only have one...
• The Z-Wave "learn" mode button is "greyed out" which makes it impossible to add the HC3 as a controller to an existing Z-Wave network. This is a Z-Wave function, it is not something vendor specific. I have no clue why it is disabled and personally I would have used this to test my network. Do not get over-exited about having 2 controllers on one network, it usually does not do what users want because you expect it to be some kind of 2 master setup or redundancy/backup think but that is not the case. Simplified, I would say, basically, only one HC would be able to "own" and control a device. I have in the past added controllers to my HC2 for very specific reasons. For example, a while ago I used it to send commands to a wall plug to force it to have a preference for a certain route.

All this may change next week, next month, next year or never.

 

I hope this explains why tinman says new and small migrations only at the moment and why I agree with that statement...

Edited January 18, 2020 by petergebruers

[10der 830]

On 1/15/2020 at 11:08 PM, tinman said:

One can for sure "convert" old scenes, assign triggers and import them.

You can’t do this.as I can know all function for scene (sleep /setTimeout and more more) now moved to VD

scene now can do nothing  ok can be as trigger. That’s all.  You can’t “port”/upgrade your scenes IMHO

Edited January 18, 2020 by 10der

[Rodolfo 2]

9 hours ago, codowd said:

This.  

 

I have had to hand-code and buy other controllers (skaro automation-bridge) to get support for devices in my home thanks to Fibaro deciding to not support 3rd party plugins and stop developing their own. Sonos, Harmony Remote, Daikin air conditioners, intercoms, Lifx lights, Hue, Alexa etc. etc.the list goes on. 

 

Fibaro - I want home automation, not just to turn some lights on and off (I could do that in 1978 using X10).

 

 

I always found it very strange for Fibaro not to have a device for controlling air conditioning, for example. at that moment I am waiting for the delivery of some items to control my air. Wouldn't it be much easier if fibaro developed products?

[10der 830]

14 minutes ago, Rodolfo said:

Fibaro deciding to not support 3rd party plugins and stop

 

14 minutes ago, Rodolfo said:

conditioning, for example. at that moment I

I as I know VD now can be a seal device o you can connect to any conditioners via WiFi / tcp / rf433 / ble and do all what you want 

and your VD will be as real device for control your air conditioner 

some notice here : if your device request some crypt function like sign r check sign on all in/out packets that’s can ne showstopper here cuz 50/50  this function can be unimplemented by FIBARO 

for example any OpenSSL function for set sign still closed for user 

Edited January 18, 2020 by 10der

[Testermax 0]

2 hours ago, Rodolfo said:

I always found it very strange for Fibaro not to have a device for controlling air conditioning,

Isnt that what the Intesis cooperation is for?

 

Too bad that Intesis devicecs are way too expensive (and outdated) compared to other alternatives for ac and heatpumps.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Testermax

[Sjakie 135]

Guys,

Other perspective finacial

the new box cost around 600 euro

I replaced all my 433 MHz stuff with Zwave(two ways communication)

I did not read all specs of HC2 and HC3 to see the difference

My "Saartje" has 4Mb memory and use 20% so I can extend ..........

For 600 euro I can buy Zwave door lock, more switches so my house will be  complete Automated! (Question is do I want that).

A good thing should be to replace all lights with Ikea Zwave

At the end it will be cheaper for me and the wife will be more happy I hope!

Still not convinced to switch into HC3 certainly with the speed off Fibaro to modify some "minor" errors.

BIGGEST issue will be if my developer of Event Runner will not support HC2 anymore. Than I will be forced to switch or just stay with a complete stable running HA system .

 

 

[cag014 628]

I think we're missing the point of all HA controllers. They are intend to provide HA solution not to engineers only, but to everyone (w/o any technical background in SW or other areas).

Engineers always could fine some creative solution and never satisfied, but continue the quest for more and more advanced tools.

To be honest what is Home Automation? Few sensors (motion/temperature/humidity/Lux) to turn ON/OFF devices that's all. In some cases it just to turn ON/OFF devices by  mobile phone, nothing else.

I agree the price and products availability are a major part of our decision what to buy.

[Joep 182]

You are right @cag014, HA is just a couple of devices and for most people HA is turning a light on with speach and their phone. But for the enigeers and geeks HA is more than that. HA must extend your life at home and not make it more complicated. I see colleages buy Philips Hue and arriving at home and looking for their smartphone to turn a light on. It's cool to impress your friends, but it is contra productive. I just push the light switch next to the front door and I can see my wardrobe in 1 second. Or better, the door sensor knows I'm the first one home and turns the light on. That is for me HA. A system that works on it's own to make my, and my family's home life easy.

 

I think the Fibaro HC2 is unique, because I, as a engineer, can create complex automations with LUA and the API and my non-technically skilled neighbor can create more than basic automations with the block scenes. And they made a nice GUI for it. I hope they make the HC3 software that way and keep us engineers happy and made a simplified block scenes interface for the general public.

And yes, I always have the urge to get the "new thing", but the HC2 is working as aspected, why not use it until the hardware stops working. My (very expensive) Honeywell EvoHome system uses very old techniques (802.11g Wi-Fi for example), but it just works.

[cag014 628]

@Joep

You're absolutely correct.

That's  exactly my point... so why to make such a big issue for upgrade to HC3.

I think our biggest problem is what happens with Z-wave on the market!?  There are some rumors that ZigBee will take over and Z-wave ends.

In this case HC3 is the greatest solution for us. HC2 will be a gateway and new ZigBee devices will be supported by HC3.