Time for a change?

[giuse 5]

4 minutes ago, Lambik said:

If you are interested, let me know. I have (personal) step-by-step installation notes, which I could share.

 

 

I also ordered a Raspberry PI as a 433Mhz RFXcom set. I'm also interested do your installation notes.

[Lambik 194]

33 minutes ago, giuse said:

 

@Lambik

Thank you for your responses you have absolutely the right attitude, please don't give up. We should have more Lambik's on this world.

 

Thank you for this very, very kind complement, it make me blush . I'm glad to see we sharing some basic principles which is highly appreciated.

 

@Bodyart , @giuse

FYI, check my topic about Node-Red (see my signature for link). I will update (expand) the topic with step-to-step instructions when I have some time.

 

EDIT: Check this shortguide:

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Lambik
Link to shortguide

[riemers 20]

Just an update on my Journay. I actually moved over using Home Assistant. Everybody can easilly share their setup without exposing any secrets via Github (easy sharing) i have created things that where so easy which was just madness on HC2. On the IOS app i can get a push notification with an action. So for example "take out the trash" which i can respond to it "later" it will then remind me later, untill either my gf or myself acknowledge it. See

Please login or register to see this link.

 for example.

 

Tracking works so much better without draining my phone, i can hook up mqtt and can even use more complex python ways to make automations. The code we have in HC2 is limited, python is pretty much endless and it runs on a rpi which is cheaper then a HC2 too. If my gf leaves 'the horses' and i am at home, google distance api calculates how long it takes before she comes home and talks on the sonos speaker how many minutes i still got and that in just a few automation tricks, most out of the box.

 

Don't get me wrong, i do think there is a good market for HC2 and for the needs i wanted it to do in the start it did. I just want more and being more flexible, HA (home assistant) allows me to do so. I would still buy fibaro devices because they are supported too and there is nothing wrong with those devices too. If you want it simple then stick with HC2.

 

Also the response on the ios app remotely was in my cases always slow, i now have a direct connection which is much faster too. Camera stream are just picture every 10 seconds on my mainscreen instead of grabbing full images on the main page of HC2 even though i would not want full updates. In short, websockets is something Fibaro doesn't do and just polls instead, which is really a bad thing imho.

 

Just a note that i once started with Homeseer, tried some other tools including for example openhab and domoticz.

 

These are just some examples, not stabbing Fibaro here because i did had a nice experience and i did have fun building some scripts and using it. I will continue to buy Fibaro devices since they are just really nice and look great too. Only just not controlling them with HC2 anymore. (I still do have a HC2, but purely now only to upgrade the firmware of the devices if needed, something that cannot be done without a HC2 afaik, which is sad)

 

p.s. the talks about user community's etc, you should really look at the Home Assistant community too, forums, every 2 weeks a new update with tons of stuff (documented) feedback, issues, online chat with multiple channels. Something Fibaro could really learn from (and no robots.txt on any website) and who knows, in 5 years time it might be another piece of software but for now i found my new place.

[giuse 5]

38 minutes ago, Lambik said:

 

@Bodyart , @giuse

FYI, check my topic about Node-Red (see my signature for link). I will update (expand) the topic with step-to-step instructions when I have some time.

 

Thank you for your pointing me to your instructions.

 

@riemers

Its very interesting I was reading about Home Assistant last year but just having a quick look right now to it its very impressive move. Thanks

[tinman 1,070]

36 minutes ago, giuse said:

@tinman

If you are making money with HA I suggest you to read the book "Silicon Germany" by Christoph Keese. It will maybe make you see my view much clearer.

 

bit OT: to be very honest, Christoph is lobbyist for ASV (therefore for him everything what against ASV is evil), he is the last person on the earth to listen. The SV fascination he got, sure, i was working for years there and know what he means, but believe me or not, the technology is everywhere. Big data is fine from global point of view, but not necessary for HA (unless you have already all necessary infrastructure outside your home, which is in honestly not the case for 99,9% of locations on the earth). But let's follow his idea for a second, to be not dependent on foreign technology but to build all we need here. I did it for me years ago already and made my choice: Fibaro - designed and manufacturer in Poland, based on technology developed in Europe, running all what necessary locally (but still with the possibility to connect everything outside there to it). THAT was the only reason for me to give fibaro's products a chance (until i started to like the technology and got the chance to compare with competitors). 

 

 

14 hours ago, Lambik said:

 

I think it's very strange you say their listening to the market. Can you enlighten us, just hummble paying submissive end-users, where we can beg for this kind of information? Listen to the market? I thought users are a part of the market.

 

sure, the upper management is listening, e.g. there are regular meetings and tons of plans what / how can be implemented to make customers happier.
Just read the forbes article about Fibaro and Maciej Fiedler, and you will get the idea what's behind the scenes.

 

14 hours ago, Lambik said:

I'm not seeing any behaviour that Fibaro is acting on that.

 

there will be always someone like you, not even God can satisfy everybody

 

14 hours ago, Lambik said:

Ask yourself, if Fibaro should stop existing, do you have an alternative backside? 

 

this is z-wave based technology, and for us (as HA integrators) one of the reason why we sale/implement it to customers. If Fibaro disappear from the market, any other z-wave gateway can take over the control. One can script migration path, to get scenes (thankfully Fibaro's HCx speaks LUA and have API to export data) migrated over to other gateways (Vera, SmartThings, Z-Way are possible candidates due to their functionality and API as well) and use z-wave controller switching functionality to get all components migrated as well. If Fibaro disappear, that will not happen over night (and as everything is stored locally), the customer will have enough time to migrate.

[riemers 20]

God can not satisfy someone is a bit harsh, you have expectations and sometimes they are not met. Most people show what is upcoming, support, roadmap, active support, online tickets, active chat support, forum support etc. Fibaro is not very good at that, if you buy a Ferarri and every time you go to the garage they say "it will be fixed in next update" and its your 3rth time already, you won't buy a Ferrari next time (Even though the car itself is fine and looks crisp) take a look at the plugins option in Fibaro wasn't that once something we all waited for? And still is far from ready/mature.

[giuse 5]

1 hour ago, tinman said:

THAT was the only reason for me to give fibaro's products a chance (until i started to like the technology and got the chance to compare with competitors). 

 

 

Are you still comparing with competitors or are you on the next stage by now trying to learn from customers/users demands by assigning real values to it from where you can now measure the success of the Fibaro HC2 product and help Fibaro as a visionary? If none of this makes sense for you what is your recommendation to me/us?

Edited August 1, 2017 by giuse

[petergebruers 1,268]

Lot's of interesting opinions from lot's of respected users... I follow most of the users that chimed in. Also: lots of facts. I like facts. Good!

 

I learned a lot from implementing other controllers, so I can recommend that! Opinions and facts may guide you to whatever controller seems to meet YOUR expectations. I don't think it makes sense to post my experience(s), unless your expectations are also my expectations.

 

I have tried at least five times, to get a SECONDARY controller to integrate with my existing network, and all of my attempts have failed. It seemed like a good idea, but it always screwed up things (royally). Five attempts is not a lot, but I got the impression that this part of Z-Wave is an afterthought and has interoperability issues. So, I came to the preliminary conclusion that I need 2 separate Z-Wave networks. That is OK if you have some spare modules, and for testing only, but it is still annoying not to have access to one network. Because, for instance, if I want to test my Remote remote control, I have to do the inclusion dance a few times + fix scripts. I'm an end-user, no stock pile of devices here.

 

Also, I have a Z-Wave stick, just to "firmware update" my Aeon stuff. Firmware updates for any module via any controller... will we ever see that happen? Or did I miss something?

 

 

[tinman 1,070]

1 hour ago, giuse said:

 

Are you still comparing with competitors or are you on the next stage by now trying to learn from customers demands by assigning real values to it from where you can now measure the success of the Fibaro HC2 product and help Fibaro as a visionary?

 

 

actually both, as the market and its expectations are changing every day

 

Quote

what is you recommendation to me/us?

 

if you wish recommendation, based on your and other home-users expectations / detailed needs, please get in contact with the company i work for, we have some skilled HA integrators, they will find a solution for you.

Edited August 1, 2017 by tinman

[giuse 5]

5 minutes ago, tinman said:

 

actually both, as the market and its expectations are changing every day

 

 

if you wish recommendation, based on your and other home-users expectations detailed needs, please contact my company to get consulting   

 

Thank you for your offer I think this is not a bad approach. Who is your Company? Is there any open position in your sales engineering group, I would like to try my luck and make career if its so?

[tinman 1,070]

1 minute ago, giuse said:

 

Thank you for your offer I think this is not a bad approach. Who is your Company? Is there any open position in your sales engineering group, I would like to try my luck and make career if its so?

 

actually the forum was short offline, and the message saved in editor was the wrong one, let me edit

[Jaapdeknaap 4]

Hi all, 

I'm not a experienced user, i'm a rookie instead.
And as a rookie, i like the community a lot over here. Everybody is helping and listening except Fibaro itself i my humble opinion.

If you ask a question to Fibaro 9 out of 10 times i don't get a response, only when i say on facebook i like a product, they do response in a second or 2.
But if i criticize something, you could hear a pin drop again.

If Fibaro say's they are lisening the the users/community why are this top 10 wanted improvements still on the wishlist for ages?

Please login or register to see this link.

 

I understand that some thing can't be done quickly, but come on, some questions are older then 2 years?!
Like H.264 Support for camera's!
 

And if they want to create a out of the box system, i don't want to make all kind off thing in LUA, because i don't understand it.

I would like to have a good an wide range in a App store (like Homey)

 

Just my 2 cents. 

edit: some typo's

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Jaapdeknaap

[petergebruers 1,268]

6 minutes ago, Jaapdeknaap said:

(...) I'm not a experienced user, i'm a rookie instead.
And as a rookie, i like the community a lot over here. Everybody is helping and listening except Fibaro itself i my humble opinion.

If you ask a question to Fibaro 9 out of 10 times i don't get a response, only when i say on facebook i like a product, they do response in a second or 2.
But if i criticize something, you could hear a pin drop again.

(...)

 

I think mister @T.Konopka from Fibaro is quite active on this forum:

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

Can you tell me what you mean by "Everybody is helping and listening except Fibaro"?

[Sankotronic 2,370]

3 hours ago, AutoFrank said:

I decided to stay with the HC2 for the following reasons

- I can live with the actual and my perceived limitations of the HC2

- I like to learn, build things and the journey is as important as the destination for me

- I like participating in this forum community

 

Thank you @AutoFrank It seems that you are the only one understanding me in this subject here completely.

 

6 hours ago, Lambik said:

I see. Then I don't have any suggestion, other then Athom Homey,

 

@Lambik You must be kidding. Did you even try to take a glimpse of what that egg is really offering? My respect for you just vanished in the thin air! Here I help you, click on this link and see: 

Please login or register to see this link.

 but there is much more of course.

 

5 hours ago, robmac said:

You do appear to have misunderstood me.  I was asking a question. Is there anything better? A simple request to save myself the cost and time of messing around looking again?

 

@robmac, unfortunately it seems to me that misunderstanding is mutual. I'm aware that I'm usually writing long posts that are hard to read for busy or lazy people but maybe you can give it one more chance, or not, it is really up to you.

 

Your question in the first post is based on your personal assumption that Fibaro is falling behind and without any details of what you actually want, so you can't get any useful answers but this debate that will not lead you anywhere closer to the decision.

 

One and half year ago when I decided to go with HA I did my own research. I was looking for HA solution that does not require me to do demolition of my new house so it has to be wireless solution. Next request was to be programmable so that I can do my stuff. Since I was new to HA I did my home work after I found z-wave devices. I brought two books about z-wave and read them of course. Then when I was searching for z-wave systems Fibaro always sticked out so I checked their product and it was immediately clear for me that HC2 is more to my expectations than HCL. After that I again brought book about LUA programming. Only after that I decided to go with Fibaro since all other system seemed to me like some baby stuff either because I could not find more detailed information or because they are trying to be out of the box solution which in my opinion is ridiculous for me and my understanding of what HA is.

 

I have Dutch friend and we work together. Since he knew that I was building HA he asked me for advice. He just brought new house and was doing complete renovation including complete new wiring. So I told him, there is nice Fibaro wireless system that can always be expanded without problem, but since you are doing renovation I suggested him to also check wired systems that are definitely more reliable, but requires deep and thorough planing. He listened to me so he did his homework and decided to go for wired system. BRAVO! It is so obvious that he knew what he want same as I knew what I wanted when decide to go for HA. Do you understand now what I'm trying to say to you?

 

6 hours ago, giuse said:

If I would ask my mother she would not know what she wants from a HA but she would enjoy it if it would be simplified to her custom habits and that's why the HC of Fibaro needs to be improved to an open on the horizontal scale with other brands and protocols because Fibaro can never ever cover all kind of hardware or service variation what a user of any kind of level is demanding. Looking on the current market the world is in a big digital transformation where the future will bring manufacturers and consumer much nearer then ever and automation is the key factor of this future. 

 

@giuse, sorry mate but you are full of black matter so nothing to add on this. Just a suggestion, read more carefully what others write here and at least try to understand.

 

6 hours ago, giuse said:

@tinman

If you are making money with HA I suggest you to read the book "Silicon Germany" by Christoph Keese. It will maybe make you see my view much clearer.

 

@giuse This was very rude from you to write to @tinman  in this circumstances and you should apologize.

 

[Jaapdeknaap 4]

@

Please login or register to see this link.

 Users like you or Sankotronic or Lambik and many more are lisening and helping. 

I mean Fibaro in general, If you asked a question like when they are going to fix (again) the harmony plugin. 

And it should be fixed a couple of updates ago, it is very quiet again...or you will get the answer Soon...

Edited August 1, 2017 by Jaapdeknaap

[jakub.jezek 371]

7 hours ago, robmac said:

You do appear to have misunderstood me.  I was asking a question. Is there anything better? A simple request to save myself the cost and time of messing around looking again?

I don't think there is better DIY (do it yourself) sollution. Yes, others maybe write there, that i did not tried domoticz or something else. But i do not want to try it. Fibaro is for me very good sollution on high level and yes i work as a tech support for Fibaro distributor in CZ. I tested PoPP, Vera, Zipato, Ezlo, Paigo, Starvedia. And i think that Fibaro is better than those and this is just my opinion.

 

If you want some better sollution than FIbaro, then if i were you, i would look in more premier segment of HA, that is not DIY model. Maybe Control4 or Crestron? We also made some integration with Fibaro and Control4, where Fibaro HC2/HCL is just IP to Z-Wave converter. There are some project on it.

 

I personally have Control4 in my home, but not for HA, i have it for fun (audio and video) and experiments. Fibaro devices will be installed later to my home when A/V and LAN will be finished.

[T.Konopka 8]

Hello,

 

44 minutes ago, Jaapdeknaap said:

I'm not a experienced user, i'm a rookie instead.
And as a rookie, i like the community a lot over here. Everybody is helping and listening except Fibaro itself i my humble opinion.

If you ask a question to Fibaro 9 out of 10 times i don't get a response, only when i say on facebook i like a product, they do response in a second or 2.
But if i criticize something, you could hear a pin drop again.

I tend to disagree. The community is for users, we created the Forum for the users to exchange information. We are active here and we gather feedback. As I am the only administrator here I have a lot to do - not only responding to questions. I am not responsible for Facebook.

You can always contact our Support at [email protected] if you have questions. You will be assisted by one of our engineers.

 

48 minutes ago, Jaapdeknaap said:

If Fibaro say's they are lisening the the users/community why are this top 10 wanted improvements still on the wishlist for ages?

Please login or register to see this link.

Well, this is not our list. I have to admit that I see it for the first time.

 

We have prioritized works so we cannot introduce all the suggestions at once. I submit users' suggestions and they may/may not be introduce in the future.

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

6 minutes ago, Jaapdeknaap said:

@

Please login or register to see this link.

 Users like you of Sankotronic of Lambik and many more  are lisening and helping. 

Fibaro in general, If you asked a question like when they are going to fix (again) the harmony plugin. 

And it should be fixed a couple of updates ago, it is very quiet again...or you will get the answer Soon...

 

Thanks. I see. I though your original statement was somewhat discouraging for the (nice) people at Fibaro, who are trying to help. But now I see that was not your intent.

 

So you what you wanted to say was not "Everybody is helping and listening except Fibaro"? but "Everybody is helping and listening but Fibaro is not answering MY requests, like when will this or this happen and when"? Fair enough! Indeed, they never release their plans. I'm sorry to hear that this is a major problem for you. If I understand you correctly, you cannot recommend a product that does not have some sort of timeline. Correct? Again, fair enough! And in this respect, you think Athom is a better product? Or is it just because they have an "app" store? I'm curious, I don't know their product...

[giuse 5]

4 minutes ago, Sankotronic said:

 

@giuse, sorry mate but you are full of black matter so nothing to add on this. Just a suggestion, read more carefully what others write here and at least try to understand.

 

 

@giuse This was very rude from you to write to @tinman  in this circumstances and you should apologize.

 

 

Sorry and I apologize for any rudeness it was not my intention to be rude to anybody. Maybe I don't understand certain rules here and please excuse me for this. My black matter is build by analyzing the current developments in the HA world in general also by reading a lot about digital transformation in all kind of sectors. I'm writing here in this topic because it matters me as I own a HC2 and I like Fibaro and felt to provide my view and opinions. Any suggestions to a product is a gift and why should Fibaro not use it to make the HC2 better as it is.  As I mentioned before any learned values should be used to measure the own success and this also valid for company as Fibaro. And Fibaro could learn a lot by his customers or users to make a real big success.

 

@tinman

Sorry again and excuse me for my behavior.

[Jaapdeknaap 4]

@petergebruers I'm not saying this to hurt people or to be rude. 

 

What i tried to say, if you have a update and in this update you say the (i my case) the harmony plugin is going to be fixed and it is not.
I think it is normal that people are starting to ask questions , i think it is more then necessary to give a proper answer from a moderator/fibaro or somebody knows the real state of the problem and give a new timeline when it is going to be fixed. And not; Soon or don't respond anymore.

 

No, i don't think Athom is a better product. But i think it is more user friendly for users like me.
I have a lot of friends that would like to have a Fibaro (higher quality), but in the end buy's Athom because of the app store and more user friendly approach. 
 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Jaapdeknaap